I know nothing about China
Araki: This is kind of embarrassing, but the only book of yours I have read is Bokkou. But, you know, it still made me feel we have a few things in common. There tends to be some sort of disconnect between the beginning and the ending when writers simply write guided by their feelings, but everything about your writing advances logically. Iโm thinking weโre alike here.
Sakemi: I donโt actually follow a logical thread, but since I write about various historical events, itโs only natural for my writings to move along in a logical manner. Truth be told, I donโt actually have an elaborate plan.
Araki: So you have been researching China for a while?
Sakemi: Well, no, I actually donโt know anything about China. Iโm making it up as Iโm writing, so itโs a little embarrassing.
Araki: I see. There are a lot of manga artists who do this too, you know. A lot of lies written about kenpou, for example.
Sakemi: But itโs still a little scary to write something you have no idea about. If someone in the know or someone whoโs worked in China told me my stuff is wrong, Iโd be done for. It hasnโt happened so far, but I feel like it might happen in the future.
Araki: Although you could say that it is fictional history in a way.
Sakemi: Everything I write is made up by me. Still, I donโt invent weapons and donโt randomly destroy existing countries either. I have my limits.
Araki: Still, when historical figures do show up, you already know when theyโre going to die. You need to have them die as they should.
Sakemi: Itโs all right, Bokkou barely features historical figures.
Araki: Oh, I see. As soon as I saw kanji I totally thought they were real people.
Sakemi: Basically itโs like this: imagine someone makes a movie, finds a wasteland and places their sets there. Thatโs what itโs like. The fortress is also something I made up myself.
Araki: I have seen it serialised in Big Comic. Do you think the art style suits the story?
Sakemi: Itโs more like, I had no idea what the clothing of the time was like, so now that Iโve seen it, I felt like I learnt something new.
Araki: Interesting (laughs)
Sakemi: We do know what kind of clothes nobles used to wear, since we have illustrations, but we have no idea what common people wore or what they ate. There are no castle walls left either, so I stumbled onto a lot of problems.
Araki: Not even ancient ruins?
Sakemi: There are a lot, but itโs kind of difficult to find something from 2500 years ago. Those in Egypt or Greece were preserved because they were built from stone, but in Chinaโs case, they were easily destroyed because they were apparently made of hardened clay. This is why you can say my novel lies in this matter.
Araki: I didnโt think for a moment it was a lie.
Sakemi: Thatโs why Iโd really, really hate for a China expert to read it. I also write science fiction, so itโs not like I only focus on China.
Betraying reader expectations in an interesting way
Sakemi: I noticed Jojoโs Bizarre Adventure features combat sport. Do you practice it?
Araki: I never have. I have done some kendou though.
Sakemi: Have you seen it live perhaps?
Araki: I havenโt, but I do watch it on TV. I donโt really feel like drawing combat sport. I believe we are similar in this respect โ tactics and strategy are more interesting. Thatโs why, to be completely honest, I hate pro wrestling and anything of the sort.
Sakemi: Pro wrestling actually has a very similar concept: you have to draw out enough of your opponentโs strength and then finish them off. Basically, if an unknown fighter attacks you, you canโt defeat them unless you bring out their special technique. You should defeat a wrestler after you have witnessed their strength several times. I think itโs the same in manga. To put it clearly, itโs better to kill a dangerous guy immediately, but once you have witnessed how threatening the enemy is, you turn the tables in one move. This is a must.
Araki: One-shot kills definitely wouldnโt fit among Jumpโs traditional long battles (laughs)
Sakemi: This would have been a problem for UWF during Maeda Akiraโs time. You can actually defeat a weak guy in about one minute. But defeating him after he has displayed his technique is much better. Unfortunately, this kind of thing is called match fixing nowadays.
Araki: Thereโs a 50-50 in this case.
Sakemi: Thatโs exactly it. A while ago, during a boxing match between Trevor Berbick and UWF international Takada Nobuhiko, instead of letting Berbick show off his crazy punches and then defeat him, Takada just started kicking him all of a sudden and Berbick ran away.
Araki: Thatโs also a fighting style.
Sakemi: Berbickโs punch is over 300 kgs heavy, so receiving one of those would have been the end. He kept kicking before that. Itโs correct in fighting, but wrong in pro wrestling. It was important to show how dangerous Berbick was, stagger on his feet, then turn the tables. Thatโs why โCementโ are mostly boring.
Araki: What are โCementโ?
Sakemi: Games played in earnest. Iโd say itโs not that good when it comes to pro wrestling and I think we can say the same thing about manga. Even in Jojoโs Bizarre Adventure losing a battle to win the war happens quite often. There are all kinds of enemies, like the guy who can only move through mirrors or the stand that attacks in dreams, so itโs fun to see every week how theyโre going to be defeated.
Araki: Before I start drawing, I usually have a broad idea about the direction of the fight, but I may change my mind halfway through.
Sakemi: I can usually tell whatโs going to happen in a manga, but not in your case, like how an enemy is going to be defeated and so on.
Araki: Some people hate that.
Sakemi: No, itโs great. You betray the readersโ imagination and expectations, and in an interesting way on top of that.
Araki: That is why โBokkouโ impressed me.
Sakemi: Thatโs because my characters get defeated after their strength is revealed.
Excitement, every single week
Araki: I said earlier that we have something in common. That something is โpsychological battlesโ. Itโs interesting to see this in all your novels. Weโre kind of similar here.
Sakemi: I know you since you received the Tezuka Prize for Poker Under Arms; it really showed off your talents and style. Those poker tricks made me think you like gambling. Am I right?
Araki: Yes, well, I usually do it. I win most of the time. Iโm the kind of man who stops while heโs still winning.
Sakemi: Did you also gamble abroad?
Araki: I did. There was this Grand Casino in Egypt, so I went there alone.
Sakemi: How did it go?
Araki: I won. I got all my souvenir money back through gambling.
Sakemi: Was it card games?
Araki: Exactly. I had to move pretty fast.
Sakemi: As I thought, youโd rather have a human for a partner than a machine, even in gambling.
Araki: Thatโs right. Even when it comes to roulette, a professional dealer, will definitely have the skill to enter your favoured number. When your partner is a pro, it feels like they can see behind your every move, several moves ahead. Itโs a great psychological battle.
Sakemi: And yet you canโt really win.
Araki: You canโt stop as long as itโs profitable. You keep thinking youโre going to play just a bit more. I, for one, stop playing after I win, since the fun of gambling are tactics anyway. I think these psychological battles are also one of the fun points of my manga.
Sakemi: This is why I find your fights between strong characters really interesting. Itโs rather impossible for an amateur to capture those psychological battles in games like shougi or go, even when people wave their fans or make a good move. On the other hand, the fights between powerful people in sumou, for example, are easy to follow. That is why itโs popular.
Araki: What about pro wrestling?
Sakemi: Well, organisations have their own rules and plans, so there wonโt be matches between the strongest people, but the psychological part is insane.
Araki: Pro wrestling is quite profound, huh.
Sakemi: Itโs too profound, really, I actually feel sorry for the people who talk about match fixing or clean matches. I think, for example, there are โfixedโ manga and โcleanโ manga too. Same with novels.
Araki: I agree.
Sakemi: Attacking after you draw out your opponentโs power to the utmost, since you do have to show it off, like in your manga: you have the enemy display their power, like in pro wrestling, meaning more suspense for the readers, then have them punctually defeated. You arenโt afraid of showing all your ideas.
Araki: There are also times when I test myself. I donโt know how to defeat the enemy, so I momentarily make them strong and drive the characters into a corner.
Sakemi: I donโt do that too often, since I end up not knowing how to save my characters. I just canโt have them fight in situations that end up too disadvantageous. In that respect, you have the enemies defeated right on time. Itโs a good thing. You donโt mind showing your ideas one after another. Jojoโs Bizarre Adventure has had dozens of defeated enemies, but it was great every single time.
Araki: I had to come up with about thirty different stands, since you need to make every new weekly chapter fun and exciting. The story will obviously have its ups and downs, but it will stop being enjoyable if it keeps having downs, even if theyโre necessary for the story itself.
Sakemi: This is why the way you construct your ideas is great; โhamonโ is one of them.
Araki: I came up with it while thinking about ways to reach your body limits, like to what extent you can transform. Thereโs been scientific research conducted about this โairโ people have, this aura that would show up if scanned with infrared. There are also other strange ideas, like energy coming from the universe and so on. I figured all these have one thing in common and came up with the concept named โkiโ, or more like โhamonโ, to make it easy to understand for the readers.
Sakemi: Is it the same for stands?
Araki: Letโs say theyโre more similar to guardian spirits. Anyway, I named them โstandsโ because they stand by your (bed)side. I ran out of ideas soon though.
Sakemi: No, no, itโs better than putting them off.
Araki: You wouldnโt be able to survive in Jump if you did that. You must have highlight scenes every week, since everyone only knows about whatโs coming next the following week.
Sakemi: Itโs also because manga requires a degree of perfection more than novels, right?
Araki: Well yes, Iโd say you need constant excitement every single week.
Itโs easy to simply focus on the story
Sakemi: The good thing about manga is that developing characters is the most important part. They gradually grow when you give them new skills, new particularities and so on.
Araki: Yes, definitely. If you donโt build up your characters, the manga will not be able to stand by itself either. I rack my brain every week to find something that appeals to the readers. The biggest problem is coming up with stories that highlight the charactersโ best parts.
Sakemi: Novels are different. Itโs more about writing people than characters.
Araki: Isnโt this the same thing?
Sakemi: Itโs not. You basically canโt write over-the-top people when youโre told to write people. I think thatโs stupid, but apparently this is how things work in the novel industry. It doesnโt matter anymore when it comes to my generation, and to put it bluntly, I think youโre better at this.
Araki: Is this how it really works? What I can say is that in the manga industry you need more than just a coherent story. Itโs easy to simply focus on the story, but itโs difficult to include certain episodes necessary for the characters and make the story coherent too. My head just goes numb after I send my weekly chapters.
Sakemi: When it comes to novels, there are writers who donโt really want to use all their ideas, and the stinggier ones even consider putting them aside for other short stories. Iโm the type who writes everything I have in mind, so my mind goes back to zero when Iโm done writing. I have to wait for new ideas to pop up. But thatโs just the way it is. Basically, itโs natural for professionals to use one idea in one short story in mystery novels; there are a lot of calculated people. I think that if you have three ideas, then you should just use all three. That is why Iโm still soft.
Araki: I am the same. Still soft.
Sakemi: Iโve only been around for about two years. Iโm still inexperienced.
Araki: I think youโre great. Bokkou was the first novel I truly found interesting in quite a while. I think you have a distinct image of your novels in your head that might be suited for manga or movies too.
Sakemi: Iโve been told they are easy to turn into drawings. But youโd need a budget the like The Silk Roadโs for a good movie.
Araki: If Bokkou were turned into a movie, I have a feeling it would rival Seven Samurai.
Sakemi: It never even crossed my mind, but I have been told this quite a lot.
Araki: It feels rather daring and impressive. I wish Kurosawa Akira at the height of his career directed it.
Sakemi: Iโm not sure Kurosawa Akira would like to repeat himself. He wouldnโt do the same movie twice and thatโs something I love about him. Heโs an amazing person, wanting to do new things at his age.
Araki: There really hasnโt been another auteur to follow in his steps in the Japanese film industry.
Sakemi: Movies have been really boring lately. However, Kurosawa Akira not only understands the true meaning of entertainment, but he has also used strange experimental techniques. Doing only experimental things from a young age and being known as a rather strange fellow is not particularly pleasant. (laughs)
Araki: Yes, itโs about doing strange things besides having a grasp of true entertainment.