About each other’s beginnings
Araki: Shall we begin by talking about each other’s beginnings?
Kaneko: Yes.
Araki: The first question will be related to work: are you also involved in storywriting?
Kaneko: Officially not, but I contribute as well.
Araki: Ah, I knew it! Looking at the illustration books, I believe that you can’t simply draw without being involved in the story. Nevertheless, even though you only do the designs, it’s amazing how many you create. There are also a lot of descriptions about the characters’ backgrounds and so on, aren’t there? I design Stands combining those characteristics. For example, it would be strange if I didn’t give a water Stand a certain type of design.
Kaneko: Of course, I think about the way the characters are and I draw them according to their personality type.
Araki: I see. For example, if something releases poisonous gas from its shoulders, it will definitely need a hole. Now the question is, what kind of hole would fit the best?
Kaneko: But when JoJo is in front of the Stand, there will also be strange poses and things like that, right? How does that work?
Araki: I’ll eventually get to that too. Just in a little while (laughs).
Kaneko: Oh, is it still your turn?
Araki: Yes, yes (laughs). I have things I want to ask.
Kaneko: Understood. Then please ask me (laughs).
Araki: First, my parents used to read to me all kinds of books when I was a wee little boy, like “The Adventures of Tom Sawyer” or Jules Verne’s “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea”. This kind of books only and no Japanese ones at all. That’s why I grew up very attracted to foreign countries, including their food and music. And that’s also why I don’t really like Japanese food.
Kaneko: I’m not too fond of Japanese food either, but you see, my parents owned a sushi shop (laughs).
Araki: Hahaha. Really?
Kaneko: I really came to hate it when I saw eels getting skewered after their eyes were removed (laughs). Anyway, back to the main question, I was more into Disney than Jules Verne. What about music? I can see from reading your works that you love Western music. I love it as well, but you know Takenoko-zoku* right? I used to do that before.
Araki: That’s not Western music, is it (laughs).
Kaneko: But what about Dschinghis Khan? (laughs). They were very interesting. I stopped watching Yoru Hit, and quickly got into Western music and came to love funk and other styles.
Araki: I like progressive rock.
Kaneko: Eh, progressive rock? (laughs)
Araki: From the ‘70s. Bands like Yes or Emerson, Lake & Palmer.
Kaneko: Almost all your Stand names come from progressive rock bands, huh.
Araki: Well, yes but…(laughs)
Kaneko: I liked Esidisi [AC/DC] (laughs). It fit really well.
Araki: Using foreign bands’ names is ok, but it’s completely different for Japanese bands. That’s no good. Or maybe I should say, it’s empathy. It’s a bit strange, like “What kind of silly things is this guy talking about?” (laughs)
Kaneko: Well, Western bands also sing about rather silly things, right?
Araki: If I knew what they were saying, I’d get too embarrassed to continue listening (laughs). That’s why for me it’s all about the rhythm, the propagation of sound. There’s a sort of space between the sounds. Like the subtlety of the strings, the pauses, the way the air vibrates. That’s why I’m fine with whatever they sing.
Kaneko: Do you get motivated to work during times like this?
Araki: Yes, yes, I get motivated and I start crying.
Kaneko: Wait, you start crying? (laughs)
Araki: That’s right. “Oh〜, this is so sad〜” (laughs). Don’t you get sad even if the lyrics have nothing to do with it?
Kaneko: Oh, I do, I do. Similarly to diabolus in musica, making your emotions fluctuate, right? If you used it well, you’d even be able to manipulate people, don’t you think? (laughs)
Where do you collect data from?
Araki: Do you travel abroad to collect data?
Kaneko: No, not really.
Araki: Soo, you are the type to admire foreign countries from afar?
Kaneko: Well, I guess so. I read the books I have with utmost attention and absorb all the information the writers provide, but that’s pretty sly, isn’t it (laughs). I’d love to travel if I had the time though. You travel a lot, don’t you?
Araki: I only travel to certain places; I’ve been to Italy many times, for example, and I love how it’s the “real deal”. Other countries just look like imitations in comparison – when I see sculptures or other works of art, I can only think “Oh, this is an imitation of that one sculpture.”.
Kaneko: I want to look more into Japan’s underground, like the lifestyle of the people around Shinokubo or drug routes.
Araki: So you can include them in games?
Kaneko: Exactly. There are a lot of games that take place in our current times, so I inevitably got interested in current Tokyo. It’s not limited to the city, but the places where people gather look different depending on the time of the day; it makes me want to convey the impact of the contrast between noon and the darkness night brings. I simply like clubs and the like as well…
Araki: What kind of clubs do you visit?
Kaneko: I don’t really, but now I go to a lot of spacious establishments. When I was young, I used to go to hobby shops quite a lot, but now… Before, there was no automatic water in clubs, so the toilets would be filled with ice and once it melted it would turn into automatic water. And then, if you went to the toilet at 4 a.m., you’d find the whole place drenched in blood.
Araki: Huh, why?
Kaneko: Group scuffles, it seems. Well, both scary and painful things used to happen, but looking and hearing about those rowdy times has become very important to me now.
Araki: It’s all right if Tokyo is the main setting. I first came up with the concept of “Stands” when I was in Egypt, since the people over there looked really suspicious. So I thought they were all bad guys.
Kaneko: Hahahaha.
Araki: It wouldn’t have been odd if anyone there had turned against me. No matter how kind they were to me, I just couldn’t trust them.
Kaneko: Sounds like something you won’t be able to let go of.
Araki: And that’s how I created Stands, the power of evil, or should I say, a different kind of power.
Kaneko: Ooh, is that why the manga takes place in Egypt?!
Araki: Exactly. Well, the editor loved Egypt as well; the locals’ power was truly great.
Kaneko: As I thought, you need to be there to actually know what it’s like.
Araki: That’s why people close by have great power, but the further they are, the weaker their power gets. I made all kinds of rules.
Kaneko: It would be boring if they were all-powerful. It’s good that the characters in your manga also have weak points they can overcome. We use demons in our games, but we thought of adding a slightly different nuance to it – “What if we used them as guardian spirits?”. That’s how the concept of Persona was born. We call them guardian spirits, but they are actually great Indian gods or all other kinds of demons. Just as the name suggests, doesn’t Persona mean someone’s “personality”? One’s other self. So, how should I put it, there are all kinds of “other selves”, from the characters’ current appearance, to their manner of speech and even their job. I thought I’d combine them all. That’s how the characters in the game became more natural. The impetus to start drawing
Araki: What made you become a graphic designer?
Kaneko: I’d been drawing for a long time, but I wanted to become a manga artist at first. Later, in middle school, when I wanted to be popular with girls, I tried to look like a badass, but failed (laughs). When I reached a certain age, I asked myself what job I’d take; I couldn’t become a musician, I couldn’t become anything. And the last option I had was drawing. Getting into a company was a good idea, but I realized I didn’t have much strength by myself, so after that I decided to do my best.
Araki: You see, I went to the kendo club in school, but I wasn’t praised even once, whether I won or lost. However, when drew manga, everyone would tell me how good I was. Those were my beginnings. My friends would get really enthusiastic about it, like “This is the greatest thing ever!”
Kaneko: Hahaha. It looks like you already had editors by that time.
Araki: Yes, yes, they really sounded like editors (laughs). So I really got into this and would tell myself I’d keep drawing the entire following night as well. These designs [are influenced] by Go Nagai, right?
Kaneko: That’s right, Go Nagai’s influence is strong. Also, Kamen Rider, kaijuu…
Araki: Yes, the kaijuu effect is definitely there!
Kaneko: It’s impossible to say the name of all kaijuu, but if someone shows me Rider cards, I can tell everyone’s names. You know what’s interesting though? When you look into the designs and discover the original source of inspiration, like Ultra Seven’s monsters being the spitting image of clay figures (dogu).
Araki: Ah, yes, you’re right.
Kaneko: I realised this when I was wondering whether armor should have a (Western) clothes motif, but then saw that if you left out the armor it would have looked just like Ultraman’s costume; the outline makes it look like Western armor.
Araki: An extremely abstract image. Didn’t Picasso, after seeing African masks, want to see how simple he could make his own paintings? Same here. Ultraman’s form is indeed extreme. The type of design you simply can’t imitate, just like Snoopy. You generally can’t draw that sort of thing.
Kaneko: You start thinking why it is actually like that (laughs).
Araki: If you make Ultraman’s design simpler than this, he won’t look cool anymore.
Kaneko: Besides, anyone will be able to draw him. That’s why adding one thing after another is easy. Simplifying things, on the other hand, is really difficult.
Finally talking about fashion
Kaneko: What do you usually wear? Neatly fitted clothes?
Araki: I rarely wear ties and the like. And even then, I don’t even know whether there is a brand that actually suits me. There are brands that don’t fit me at all, that make me feel like I’m anything but myself. Prada, for example, or Gucci.
Kaneko: This does tend to happen indeed. I have a lot of Gaultier suits, but I do go shopping often too, so when I’m asked “So, manga artists are coming?”, it seems they are pretty familiar with Jump authors like K.M. or T.B. Apparently, Mr. K.M once spent several tens of thousands of yen on clothes. “That’s so awesome!”, I thought. It looks like Mr. T.B’s goes shopping together with his friends or his girlfriend though. In the end I realised that there are all kinds of manga artists as well! (laughs)
Araki: I don’t really go shopping. My brand picks are Versace or Dolce & Gabbana, but I’m not too crazy about them. I love looking at models though. Don’t you think models have this kind of spectre quality to them? The way they tilt their head or their mouths look oddly big. That kind of stuff captivates me. And so, by reproducing them, they gradually turn into Jojo-like characters (laughs) – like bending their hips back or forth. This kind of bending is also because of Italy.
Kaneko: So this is how they turn into Jojo poses! Like, “ズキューン！!” or grabbing a blood vessel and going “You should be still” (laughs). There’s a fairy named Trish in Persona who helps characters recover their health whose name comes from the fashion model Trish Goff. Back when she wasn’t that famous I used to think she was very cute and had such an interesting name. But then she became super famous not long after and I thought “Oh no, this isn’t good!” (laughs).
Araki: I find it amazing that you knew about her since back then. She was already popular by the time I had created Trish Una.
Kaneko: All models have really cool names, don’t they? Like Shalom Harlow.
Araki: Her huge eyes are cool as well.
Kaneko: Lately, thin models have become more numerous than bigger ones, huh. Like Devon Aoki.
Araki: Devon Aoki has got a strange air about her too.
Kaneko: Did you know she is Rocky Aoki’s daughter?
Araki: Eh, is that so? Who is Rocky Aoki anyway (laughs).
Kaneko: Do you know the restaurants Benihana?
Araki: Oh, yes, yes.
Kaneko: He is the owner. Incidentally, isn’t there someone in Jojo part 4 who likes Ferré*? I wondered if you liked him.
Araki: Truth is, I write about such things even if I’m sure almost no one knows about them anyway.
Kaneko: Moschino is the same, right?
Araki: Oh, oh, Moschino was good too! I was surprised when it appeared. The peace sign* design came from there.
Kaneko: Double suits are characteristic of them too. The buttons are in the place of the eyes, forming a face. I’ve seen new designs from John Galliano or Alexander McQueen as well. They’d make good Stands (laughs).
Araki: I like Roberto Cavalli too. Quite a lot of people have been debuting these days, but don’t have shops in Tokyo. They remind of the style worn by dangerous ladies which is really great.
What flows from the root of your work
Kaneko: Your works are referenced in a lot of things, right? It’s kind of like Shakespeare, or, how should I put it, something I haven’t seen with other Japanese drama, literature or manga.
Araki: But you know, there’s also Kajiwara Ikki’s “If you are small and want to beat someone big, then you mustn’t think of yourself as small!”…or something like this (laughs). I still find this kind of thought pattern moving, even though I read that in my fourth year of elementary school. Like, “Wow, that was so cool…!”.
Kaneko: I’m a bit startled that you’ve read Kajiwara Ikki’s works. Quite different from what I expected.
Araki: Truth is, I started with “Star of the Giants”.
Kaneko: No way?!
Araki: I think it was during my first year of elementary school…I don’t usually mention this, but “Magazine” was the first publication I talked to when I wanted to publish my first manga. Incidentally, back then Kajiwara Ikki stopped serializing in “Magazine” so I switched over to “Jump” (laughs).
Kaneko: That’s seriously unexpected (laughs).
Araki: I love foreign countries, but I also love stories where poor people rise in the world.
Kaneko: Whenever I see the photos at the back of the tankobon, it’s kind of rude of me to say, but I think you look like you had a good upbringing (laughs).
Araki: Hahahaha.
Kaneko: So when you write about Rohan Kishibe and those kind of stories, all the more I wonder “Is this really all right?” (laughs)
Araki: But you are surprising as well. You had a more frightening image.
Kaneko: I’m often told that I seem to have an actor’s personality. Truth is, I’m a pretty easy-going guy. Speaking of manga, I was into “The Genius Bakabon”.
Araki: Oh, Akatsuka Fujio (laughs). It was quite a thing (laughs). Great stuff.
Kaneko: I simply loved the surrealistic setting, couldn’t get enough of it. After all, it’s the person who discovered Tamori*! In a way, he raised him and turned him into who he is today.
Araki: Speaking of settings, I went to a Christian school, where I read the Bible every day, so that particular way of thinking got ingrained in my brain.
Kaneko: Is that so! Was it a Catholic school?
Araki: No, it was a Protestant one. As a kid, I thought “What the…?” at the disciple’s betrayal, but as an adult I understood how important it was. Different kinds of literary works also have their roots in it, and I’ve come to understand numerous other allusions. However, in my case, rather than believing in God, I believe something exists. It’s difficult to pinpoint what it is, but it also includes destiny. That is why, if my works aren’t based on something of the sort, the end result is scary and I end up asking myself why I am drawing manga in the first place. Am I doing it to earn money or to impress women? The more time passes, the more horrible this would all feel. But I can keep going as long as I have fairness and humanity.
Kaneko: Indeed, you wouldn’t be able to draw if you didn’t have human love. Getting money out of all this too is obviously fine though (laughs). But doing it just for money isn’t right.
Araki: You definitely need it in order to go on, don’t you think?
Kaneko: It also gets difficult when you start thinking why people exist.
Araki: You reach this question when you draw about things like destiny – “Why is this person here?”. If you’re attached to the protagonist, the question becomes even more important. The people who make RPGs feel that to an even higher degree, right?
Kaneko: That’s right. We think about the inevitable fate of the characters. Animals are part of the cycle of life on earth, aren’t they. Earthworms exist to clean the soil and their purpose to leave descendants. Only humans are different.
Araki: But it’s not good if that kind of world comes to the surface. There are several layers we shouldn’t see beyond and it would be even worse if they didn’t exist. This isn’t only about manga, but also about music and just about everything.
[Translated by Dijeh][1]
