JOJOnicle (December 2019)

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Published December 19, 2019
Incomplete transcript
JOJOnicle

Interview with Hirohiko Araki released in the JOJOnicle artbook, published on December 19, 2019.

Interview

TranslationTranscript

This time, after the exhibitions in Tokyo and Osaka, I got to have original art exhibitions in Nagasaki and Kanezawa. Both of these cities have deep cultural histories and unique local environments, and the art museums we used were architectural masterpieces as well. I am greatly pleased and honored to have the opportunity to display the original artwork of JoJo in these locations.

In addition to the twelve large originals, I created one new key visual each for Nagasaki and Kanezawa. The motif for them was the Japanese artwork "Kakitsubata-zu" (by Korin Ogata). The characters from JoJo will be present, so please come meet them at Nagasaka and Kanezawa. I hope you will enjoy the experience.

Interviewer: There's going to be an art exhibition starting January 2020 in Nagasaki, and in April in Kanezawa. The official visual for these exhibitions features many characters from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, right?

Araki: I chose the characters based on their silhouettes. Much like with the large original art I made for the Tokyo hall and Osaka hall, titled "There is always a Traitor". I looked at if their hair length, their physique, whether they were muscular or fat, male or female, or whetehr they were wearing skirts or pants, how their feet are pointed... I chose characters based on such criteria, and while I was doing so, I brought in some of the "secret members" who I had wanted to put in the large original art, but couldn't. In that sense, these two official visuals for a pair with the large original art.

(Araki does all his coloring in analogue. He says, "You know how a lot of color inks have been going out of production lately? Some of these makers used to produce really good colors, too. It's a bad situation.")

Interviewer: I was surprised at how some of the characters had their costumes renewed. Wamuu is wearing sneaker, for instance.

Araki: Ahahaha. I was imagining him as an athlete. He wore sandals during the serialization, but this time, I thought, maybe I'll put him in sneakers. It might be because the Olympics are coming soon. But, it's not like I want to change everybody's costumes. For example, Sandman has to be barefoot. He mustn't wear sneakers. I designed Lisa Lisa with her belt at her waist, because I felt her fashion from the serialization had become dated. This Lisa Lisa, she's unrestrained, don't you think? It might be because I tend to picture her in classic clothes, but I like how unrestrained she feels new. I wanna go "Teach me a lesson, missy!" Oh wait, she's a mother, huh? (laughs) And, while the same goes for Kakyoin, I represented Lisa Lisa's shadow with dots. Actually, I also drew Jotaro's shadow with dots in the previous original artwork. It might be the influence of "Pumpkin", by famous avant-garde artist Yayoi Kusama. Its surprisingly nice to represent a 3D shape with dot gradations, isn't it ?

(Much like with typical original colored artwork, he starts by coloring the soft skin tones. "It's import to do it in one go. Manga artists have deadlines, so there's no time to get too detailed", says Araki)

Interviewer: Doesn't the president stand out?

Araki: I had the president slightly twist his mouth, to give the impression he's plotting something. Those things are how I express these characters. Overall, the president's pose is one I'm especially satisfied with. Also, don't you think Polnareff looks a little sexy with that lei around his neck? Ermes is the only one who's strongly expression her emotions. She's the one shouting, "What's going on here?" (laughs) The other characters are acting relatively cool, so I had her as the one contrasts.

Interviewer: Johnny also leaves a strong impression since he's posed with both his hands in fists.

Araki: I pay attention to the expressivity of the hands, as well. The hands can speak too, right? Once again, these characters aren't just closing or opening their hands. There's movements in their fingers, and creating formations with them. That's the sort of thought I put into each character's hands while I was drawing them.

(The original art of the key visuals easily exceeds 2 meters when lined up side by side. It was made with the experience he gained from making the 12 large original artworks from one and a half years ago)

Interviewer: I wasn't expecting Giorno, a main character, to be placed on the right edge. Considering his popularity, he could have been the centerpiece, don't you think?

Araki: I didn't think at all about drawing popular characters, or ones the readers would like. What's important is the layout and the shape of the characters. The first character I placed was the president... Maybe because he acts so haughty (laughs). After deciding on the president and other main features, the next thing I did was place the males and females evenly, and then, while it woud be fine to bring a main character like Giorno to the front, I instead deliberately had given him the duty of handling the most important spot on the edge.

Interviewer: There's a lot of characters who are grouped up in pairs, like Sandman with Pocoloco, and Prosciutto with Risotto, right?

Araki: It wouldn't be interesting anymore if all the characters were scattered about, so instead I laid it out so several of them get grouped together. For this official visual, the gaps are extremely important. For example, from the right edge, there's Giorno, then a few characters, then a line break with the president, then after the gap, there's a small space before Sandman... and that's how I designed it. That gap is actually an important thing called the "rhythm". It's like you can't settle down without it. People who've drawn still-lifes might understand, but there's a balance to the weight of an artwork.

To tell the truth, this official visual is based off a famous piece called the Irises screen by an Edo-period artist named Kourin Ogata. One of my themes is using old art as a theme to draw JoJo illustrations. Th Irises Screen is also a pattern, and it is also a joint. It gives the sensation of being 3-D, and it gives the sensation of having space. What makes the Irises Screen great is its sense of rhythm, its layout, and its felling of life. Placing JoJo characters into that was a good fit. There's the combination of purple and green colors, of course, but the sharp, bouncy grass fit well too. The parts I absorbed from the Irises Screen was the color combination, and the rhythm created by the layout. It's not an imitation so I don't think you would notice Kakisubata-su was the motif if nobody told you.

(The Irises Screen is an art piece that has been designated as a national treasure. It consists of a right side and a left side, and uses green and ultramarine to depict a group of irises in full bloom. This piece could be said to be a representative of not just the Edo period, but all of Japanese art history. It was made by the Edio period artist and craftsman Korin Ogata (1658-1716). His works have been appraised for the strong design sense, and include many paintings, as well as large folding screens, and smaller items, like handheld fans.)

Interviewer: Lately, you original artworks have been ones that bring images of Japanese art to mind. Does that have anything to do with why JoJolion is set in Japan?

Araki: No I don't think so. I've always thought artists like Hokusai Katsushika were really good. There's a part of me that thinks that way because I'm Japanese, but his most famous works really are good. When I draw, I use a flat ukiyo-e style background and my humans have a Renaissance-style 3-dimensional feel to them. It's a fusion of the two, you see?

Interviewer: A combination of Japanese and European?

Araki: Hm, not quite. It's an otherwordly space. What my art does is create a fantasy world.

Interviewer: This time, you official key visuals also have a very 2-dimensional background, right?

Araki: The color of the background is based off the bricks used in European buildings. I could also have made the background bright red, for instance, but I ventured to go with the brick color this time. This brick color was made by mixing 5 colors together. It's a color used in buildings, so it's calming, isn't it?

Luxurious and showy colors are nice too, but i want this art to have a low-key attitude. I don't like to overwhelm the people who come to see it. It's important to be able to relax the atmosphere. So, I'd like people to fell the atmosphere of the place it's displayed in. I also, I hope that they'll display it in a restaurant.

Interviewer: Your last large original art used 12 sheets and had 24 characters. Does the pattern of 12 continue with this one?

Araki: I was a little bit particular with the number 12 on this one, too. That's to align with how there are 24 hours in a day, and so on, that sort of formula of the natural world. I draw my art as a lucky talisman. A guardian deity is another way to put it. I think it's the same with emblems. That's how I draw my art. That's why I use celebratory colors. When I draw, I'm thinking, "I hope good fortune will befall the people who come see this."

Interviewer: Going to the basics, what made you want to hold an art exhibition?

Araki: Manga is something that is printed onto paper and then read, but Weekly Shonen Jump's print quality has always been bad (laughs). I used to think that when there were things that couldn't be expressed through print, that was inevitable, but my desire for people to see the things that couldn't be expressed in print was my motivation for holding art exhibitions. There have been times people would tell me, "it's meaningless to color things in a way that's unprintable", but when I colored, I would think, that's not really true, is it? You might believe that the parts that don't show up in print are wasted, but maybe there's something" that seeps through. Perhaps it's lingering sentiment. I believe that's something that's contained in the originals. My colored style has changed from before, too. In the past, I would only color the parts of the original that would show up in print.

Interviewer: Up until the middle of Part 4, you would draw a rectangle with blue pen to trin out the part you didn't want printed, right?

Araki: That's right. But, somewhere along the line, I decided I'd color in the whole thing.

Interviewer: Around the beginning of Part 5, you started drawing everything, backgrounds and all.

Araki: When you color everything in, you get a sense of satisfaction when the drawing is finished.

Interviewer: And I believe your first art exhibition was around that time too, right? You just suddenly had an individual exhibit in Paris (laughs).

Araki: If I wanted to hold it in Japan, I'd have to work things out with my publisher, and it seemed there would be a lot of work, so I thought, I might as well do it overseas, and had it in Paris.

Interviewer: It was an unusual thing at the time, wasn't it? A manga exhibition is rare enough in itself, and this one was even overseas.

Araki: I've always been fond of Paris, but another factor was I knew someone there. I don't think people put much importance on manga art exhibitions at the time. I think both creators and editing departments went in the direction of wanting to become an anime. But, in my case, I knew someone in Paris. Call it fate or whatever, but everything in Paris just naturally came together, and I got to hold an exhibition in an independent art gallery in one of Paris' finest regions. So it's not like I had to push hard to have it in Paris.

Interviewer: And starting with Paris, you've held exhibitions in your hometown of Sendai, and Tokyo, the Italian city of Florence, Osaka, and now in Nagasaki and Kanazawa.

Araki: I'm pleased and honored to have my exhibitions in such storied cities as Nagasaki and Kanazawa. The exhibition halls, Nagasaki Art Museum and Kanazawa 21st Century Art Musuem, are both amazing buildings. I'm grateful and honored to have my art displayed in such buildings. How will JoJo interact with such spaces? I'm very curious to know myself.


[Translated by Daxing Dan]


―― 2020年1月から長崎、そして4月からは金沢で展覧会が開催されます。この2会場の公式ビジュアルには『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険』のキャラクターが数多く描かれていますね。

荒木 キャラクターはシルエットで選びました。東京会場や大阪会場で展示した大型原画「裏切り者は常にいる」を描いた時も同じでしたが、髪の毛の長さやスタイル、 筋肉質なのか太っているのか、男性なのか女性なのか、あるいはスカートをはいているかパンツか、足のつま先がとがっているかどうか・・・。

 そういうところでキャラクターを選びつつ、大型原画の時に入れたくても入れられなかった、いわば裏メンバーにも出ていただきました。

 そういう意味で今回の2点の公式ビジュアルは、大型原画と対をなしている原画なんです。

―― 中にはコスチュームがリニューアルされているキャラクターもいて驚きました。 ワムウがスニーカーだったり(笑)。

荒木 あははは、これはアスリートのイメージで描きました。連載時のコスチュームはサンダルを履いていたんだけど、今回は「スニーカーかなぁ」と思ったので。時期的にオリンピックが近いからかもしれないですね。

 でも、コスチュームは誰でも変えていいってわけではなくて、例えばサンドマンは絶対に裸足です。彼はスニーカーを履いちゃだめなんですよ。

 リサリサはベルトの位置を腰で止めているデザインにしました。連載当時のファッションだと古くなっている感じがしたので。 このリサリサ、イケイケでしょ?

 クラッシックな衣装のイメージが強いかもしれないけど、今回はイケイケにしたところが気に入っています。「お姉さん、教えてください!」って感じですね。あ、お母さんか(笑)。

 それと、花京院もそうですがリサリサの影をドットで表現しています。じつは前回の大型原画の時も、承太郎の影をドットで描いたんですよ。これは前衛的な芸術で有名な草間彌生さんの作品『南瓜』の影響かな。立体をドットのグラデーションで表すというのは意外といいですね。

―― 大統領も目立っていますね。

荒木 大統領は微妙に口元をゆがませたりして「何か企んでるな」って感じにしました、その辺はキャラを表現してるんです。 全体的にも大統領は会心のポーズだと思ってます。

 ポルナレフも首にレイをかけていたりして、ちょっと色っぽくなりましたね。

 エルメェスは彼女だけ感情が激しく出ちゃっているんですよ。ひとりだけ「どうしちゃったんだろう?」ってくらい叫んでいますが(笑)、これは他のキャラクターが割とクールに構えているのでワンポイントで入れてみました。

―― ジョニィのポージングも両手の拳が印象的です。

荒木 手の表情も気にしますね。手って、 何かを物語ってるじゃないですか。

 今回の各キャラクターも、ただ手を握ったり開いたりしているわけではなく、指に動きを入れたり、ちょっと構図をつけたり ・・・と、ひとりひとりで手の構図も考えて描いています。

―― 主人公キャラのジョルノが右端に置かれているのが意外でした。人気で言うとメインでも良かったと思うのですが?

荒木 人気キャラを描こうとか、読者に受けるキャラを出そうとか、そういうのは一切考えなかったですね。

 重要だったのは、構図であったり人物の形でしたから。

 キャラクターの配置は、最初に「ここ」 と位置を決めたのが大統領だったんだけど ・・・偉そうだったからかな(笑)。

 大統領などのメインを決めたら次は男性と女性が交互になるように置いて、ジョルノのような主人公キャラは前面に持ってきてもいいけど、あえて端のいちばん大事な場所を押さえてもらっています。

―― サンドマンとポコロコ、あるいはプロシュートとリゾットのように対で絡んでいるキャラクターも多いですね。

荒木 キャラクターを散らすと面白くなくなるから、ギュッと何人かずつ固めて配置していく形になっています。

 今回の公式ビジュアルは、隙間が非常に重要なんですよ。例えば右端からジョルノ、 何人かいて大統領で改行して、隙間を作って少し離れた場所にサンドマンを置いて・・・という感じにしています。その隙間がじつは「リズム」ってことで重要なんですよ。 この隙間がないと落ち着かないというか。静物画を描いたことがある方なら判るかもしれないですが、「絵の重さ」のバランスがあるんですよ。

 じつはこの公式ビジュアルは江戸時代の尾形光琳という画家が描いた名画『燕子花図』をモチーフにして描いてます。それと「昔の名画をテーマにして、『ジョジョ』 のイラストを描く」ということもテーマにしています。

 『燕子花図』は模様でもあるし、ひとつの敷面でもあるし、立体感もあるし、空間性もある。

 『燕子花図』の素晴らしいところは、この絵のリズム感、構図、生命感、そういった理由からです。それらが『ジョジョ』のキャラクターを配置していくのにすごく合っていたんです。

 紫とグリーンの色の組み合わせもそうですし、ギザギザしててピョンピョンと跳ねているような草のリズム感も合っていた。ただ、『燕子花図』から取り入れたのは色合いであったり、構図から生まれるリズム感という部分であって、真似ではないので「燕子花図がモチーフ」というのは言われないと判らないと思いますよ。

―― 近年は和をイメージさせる原画も多いんですが『ジョジョリオン』の舞台が日本というのは関係あるんでしょうか?

荒木 いや、それはないかなぁ。もともと葛飾北斎とか、すごくいいなって思ってるんですよ。僕が日本人だからそう感じる部分もありますが、名画は本当にいい。

 僕の絵は背景をペタッと浮世絵風に塗って、人物は立体感を出してルネッサンス風にしていますが、そのふたつの融合なんですよね。

―― 和洋折衷?

荒木 うーん、そうではなくてペタッとしてて異空間。ファンタジーワールドを作っていくのが僕の絵です。

―― 今回の公式ビジュアルも背景は平面的ですね。

荒木 背景の色は、ヨーロッパの建物で使われているブリックというレンガの色をイメージしています。背景の色は例えばギンギンの赤にすることも可能だったんだけど、 今回はそこをあえてレンガ色にしてみました。このレンガ色は5つの色を混ぜて作ったんですよ。建物に使われている色なので、落ち着くんですよね。

 豪華絢爛で派手な色もいいんだけど、今回の絵は何気なく空気のようにいてほしいと思ってます。見に来ていただいた方を、 圧倒させるのは好きじゃないんですよ。

 「空間を落ち着かせる」というのが重要なんです。だから飾っている場所の空間性っていうか、そういうのも感じてほしいですね。

 あと、この絵は「レストランに飾ってほしいな」っていうのも希望なんですよ。

―― 前回の大型原画は12枚あって24人のキャラクターが描かれました。今回も 「12」の流れは受け継いでいるんでしょうか?

荒木 今回も「12」という数字には少しこだわりました。これは1日24時間だとか、 そういう自然界の方式に合わせたもの。

 僕は絵を「縁起物」だと思って描いています。守り神って言ってもいいかな。エンブレムとかもそうだと思うけど、そんなイメージで絵を描いています。だから色合いも、おめでたい色を使ったりしますし。

 絵を描く時、「見に来てくれたみんなに幸福になってほしいな」って、そういうのを願って描いていたんですよ。

―― そもそもの話なのですが、どうして展覧会を開きたいと思ったのでしょうか?

荒木 漫画って紙に印刷されて読まれるものなんですが、昔から週刊少年ジャンプの印刷はすごく悪かった(笑)。印刷で表現できないのは「しょうがない部分だな」とは思っていたんだけど、その「印刷で出ない部分」も見てほしいと思ったのが展覧会を開きたいと思った動機ですね。

 「印刷に出ない塗り方で塗っても意味がないよ」みたいなことを言われたこともあるけど、僕は「そういうことじゃあないんだよなぁ」と思いながら色を塗ってましたから。

 たしかに印刷に出ない部分は無駄と思えるかもしれないけど、そういうところから、 じつは「何か」がにじみ出てくるんじゃないかっていうことです。

 情念っていうのかな、そういう「何か」 が生の原画にはあると僕は信じてるんですよ。

 色を塗るスタイルも昔と今では変わってきてて、昔のカラー原画は、印刷に使う部分だけ色を塗ったりしていたんですよ。

―― 第4部の途中くらいまでは、印刷で使ってほしい部分だけ先生が青鉛筆で四角くトリミング指定をされていましたね。

荒木 そうですね。でも、いつの頃からか 「ちゃんと塗ろう」と決めたんですよね。

―― 第5部の最初の頃あたりから背景も含めてバシッと全部描くようになっています。

荒木 全部塗ると、絵が出来上がった時の満足感があるんですよ。

―― 最初の展覧会を開かれたのも、確かその頃ですよね。いきなりパリで個展(笑)。

荒木 日本で開くためには出版社との調整とかいろいろと大変そうだったから、じゃあいっそ海外でやってみるのも面白いかなって思ってパリで。

―― 当時としては異例ですよね。漫画の展覧会そのものが珍しかったし、しかも海外で開く。

荒木 パリに憧れていたっていうのもありましたが、知り合いがいたというのが大きいですね。

 あの当時、世の中は漫画の絵画展ってあまり重要視していなかったと思うんですよね。作家も編集部も「アニメになりたい」 とか、そういう方向が大きかったと思う。

 でも僕の場合は知り合いがいたりして、 「縁」というか、パリで開くための流れみたいなものが自然とできていて、パリの一流の場所で個人経営の画廊で展覧会をやらせていただけたんです。

 なので、無理矢理パリで開いたというわけでもないんですよね。

―― パリから始まった展覧会は先生の故郷である仙台、東京、イタリアのフィレンツェ、大阪、そして今回の長崎、金沢と続きます。

荒木 長崎、金沢という由緒ある街で展覧会を開いていただけるので、名誉なことでうれしいです

 会場である長崎県美術館も、金沢21世紀美術館も、ともにすごい建築物なんですよ。そういう建築物の中に飾られるのは有り難いし、名誉なことだし、その空間性に 『ジョジョ』が入ったらどうなるのか?

 僕自身、すごく興味がありますね。

(2019年8月20日、先生の仕事場にて収録)


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