How Time Stop can beat Gold Experience Requiem

From JoJo's Bizarre Encyclopedia - JoJo Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

About the Author

avatar

Love to code, love to video edit, love to watch shows, love to play piano, love to do a lot of things...

Other recent contributors

Make this page better by editing it.
Spyromaniac666
1

SPOILER WARNING: Part 3-5 spoiler details may follow.


Impossible? This journey has been full of impossible things... This is pointless, I'm tired of hearing about what's impossible.
—Jotaro Kujo


Gold Experience Requiem (or GER for short) may be one of the most misunderstood Stands in the JoJo community.

It's to be expected considering it only appeared for a short time, not giving much chance for its abilities to be properly realised. Unfortunately, such lack of canon information leads to vast fan theories, and thus misinformation spreads. To quote a very funny man, "In a society like this table, a state of equilibrium, once one makes the first move everyone must follow!". It seems as though many people have filled in their understanding of GER by taking in whatever popular explanations they come across, rather than coming to conclusions using the evidence provided by the series itself.

I've noticed how people are very quick to deny that Stands with Time Stop, Star Platinum and The World, are able to lay a finger on GER. This is due to popular theories about GER and its abilities floating around the community, some having no evidence behind them at all.

Given the vagueness of Requiem's dominion over souls, I'm not going necessarily debunk existing theories. Instead, I will mostly aim to prove how Time Stop could defeat Gold Experience Requiem, using fair assumptions based on what little we got.

Disclaimer

As mentioned above, so much about GER, and Requiem in general, is unknown. This article only assumes what is most likely, based on what we were presented with in Vento Aureo – our best assumption of the Stand and its abilities.

This is but a possibility, and is absolutely not intended to be considered as fact. After all, we'll never really "reach the truth".

Bypassing Return to Zero

A great misconception in the Diavolo vs GER battle is Return to Zero – arguably GER's 'main' ability – interrupting King Crimson's Time Erasure. However, this is most likely false, as RTZ is implied to only have taken effect after the Time Erasure had ended. The 2 most obvious ways to tell this, is first how the anime visually shows Time Erasure ending before the effects of RTZ begin to occur. Secondly, for King Crimson to attack Giorno as intended, Time Erasure would have to end for things to be tangible again.

That being said, there is a counterargument in how RTZ didn't necessarily need to activate until Time Erasure ended, since Giorno was only in danger once Diavolo went for his finishing punch. While this is very possibly the case, based on what we were given in that scene, it's better to assume that RTZ cannot activate in Time Erasure. I could go on to talk about GER's lack of reaction to Diavolo spraying blood over Giorno's eyes, but the vagueness of what defines an 'attack' for RTZ to automatically activate makes this action illegible as evidence for this topic.

So from what we were shown, it is most likely that RTZ only activates from the moment it is possible for it to do so. Arguably, erased time still has time 'moving', so if RTZ can't take effect there, there's it's safe to say that it can't take effect inside of Time Stop.

Considering how Diavolo activating King Crimson's ability didn't trigger RTZ, it is highly unlikely that the activation of Time Stop would be interrupted. This means that during the duration of one's Time Stop, Giorno and GER are left vulnerable.

But how can GER be defeated before time resumes?

Killing Giorno

Epitaph envisions Giorno's demise

While GER possesses high levels of strength, and likely durability, it definitely isn't invincible. This is apparent from Epitaph's vision where King Crimson successfully punches through Giorno's stomach.

This implies that one way or another, without Return to Zero, Giorno can be killed with GER. This means that, assuming Giorno can be damaged to the point where he dies instantly after time resumes, RTZ probably wouldn't be able to save him.

But that'd be too easy, so let's assume that RTZ would activate fast enough to restore Giorno anyway. Luckily, there is still an alternative possibility...

Devolving Requiem

Giorno picking up the Arrow post-victory

One incredibly important detail from the end of Vento Aureo is how Giorno can be seen picking up the Arrow from the ground after GER is defeated by Diavolo.

This heavily implies that once GER had served its purpose, the Arrow 'fell out' of it, likely devolving the Stand.

This claim is further supported by the following Joestar family tree from Part 6, Stone Ocean:

Joestar Family SO Beginning.jpg


As can be seen, Giorno is noted as having the Stand 「ゴールド・エクスベリエンス」(Gold Experience) and not Gold Experience Requiem. The same is true for other Joestar family trees, including GioGio's Bizarre Adventure and Ripples of Adventure.

This would lead us to believe that without the Arrow inside of it, GER devolves back to its original form, Gold Experience. Therefore, if a Stand, such as Star Platinum, was to rip the Arrow from GER's head (assuming it actually is there), it's within reason to believe that GER would devolve and Return to Zero would not commence once time resumed.

A common counterargument to this theory is Chariot Requiem persisting despite not fusing with the Arrow. However, the Arrow wouldn't go through the trouble of merging with Gold Experience if it didn't need to... right? Of course, the other factors such as Chariot Requiem's user being dead and the Stand going rogue make basing Requiem rules off of it unreliable. Plus, generalising Requiem is usually unreliable since we only got 2 instances of it happening, both of which had different results from each other.

Conclusion

It's inevitable that this theory is full of speculation, but hopefully this has at least given what is most likely.

Can Time Stop beat Gold Experience Requiem? Most likely, yes, it can. Funny how despite all the new crazy abilities we've gotten across JoJo's serialisation, the OG Star Platinum (and The World too) still holds up.

You are not allowed to post comments.


avatar

FTRRRRRRRRRRRUnità Speciale

10 days ago
Score 0
Future leaders of the world inshallah
avatar

ChritinAgent of DIO

10 days ago
Score 0

Well, I respect your ideas, but I have to fully disagree in numerous ways. I'll go through each of them by section.

Section One - Bypassing Return to Zero Contentions:

  • While we did not see RTZ activate during the Time Skip, there is nothing that implied that it only activated after Time Skip directly ended. The Return to Zero happened when Diavolo went to strike Giorno, which was still within the Time Skip. Also, there is no assumption that Time Skip ended at that time. Even when you cited the anime as showing it had ended. While they do use the visual of the red bars going across the screen, this isn't used to show the time skip being reverted instead of it ending.
  • The point at which the Return to Zero takes effect doesn't really matter. We saw this in his fight with Diavolo, as when GER Reverted Diavolo's attack, it not only reverted his attack but the time skip itself.
  • If you agree that the RTZ will automatically activate whenever it is possible for it to do so, it should be able to through its higher reaction time. GER has what is described as Inaccessible speed and reaction time, where it is able to move or react to things in Zero Time. This is primarily supported by the fact that Diavolo says himself the GER is moving in the skipped time and is able to talk and react to what Diavolo was doing in it while it was being reverted. Inaccessible speed is different from things like time stop and the time skip since abilities like that are different from speed and are dependent on the reaction time of the user to activate them.

Section Two - Killing GER Contentions:

  • GER is described numerous times as being beyond all stands both post part 5 and in the middle of part 8 (since those were the release dates of JOJO-A-GO!GO! and JoJoveller respectively). This should put his Stands power, and more specifically speed beyond any other stand. So it doesn't make sense to claim that just any Stand could beat it in a physical brawl.
  • Why should Epitaph's Prediction be infallible? We have seen Diavolo be incorrect on the outcome of Epitaph multiple times, primarily in his fight with Risotto where he believed Doppio would have his head exploded, but it was in fact Risotto's invisible blood splattering on his head (or something like that). All I'm saying is that we do not know what the outcome could've been after being hit by Diavolo. He could've healed himself, or just resisted the attack and fought back. It is impossible to say that what happened there would have definitely been Giornos defeat.

Section Three - Devolving Requiem Contentions:

  • This shouldn't even be considered. Most VS Battle fights have standard battle assumptions, and one of them is that each character is at their strongest, and would be willing to use their strongest abilities (such as if you made a vs battle fight with Goku, under standard battle assumptions he would inherently use abilities like MIU). The only time this isn't used is when characters having certain abilities contradict the story (such as with Alucard, he is usually split into Pre-Schrodinger and Post-Schrodinger) since in the story it is impossible for him to have both his vampire immortality and quantum immortality at the same time. Even with this idea though, Giorno having GER isn't something contradictory to the story. An example of Giorno being contradictory would be him having both GER and GE at the same time, but in this case, him just having the one Stand would be fine.
  • Using the family trees doesn't really make any sense. There are a few problems I have with it. First off, the family trees most likely only use the most well-known version of the character when describing their stands. People KNOW Giorno has Gold Experience throughout the story, and so it probably isn't considered whether he gets a power-up later. What I'm basically saying is that the family trees describe the most basic version of the character. As an example, what about Joseph? Under your logic, since it doesn't say he has Hermit Purple in that family tree, then he must have lost it right? Or, Is it much more likely that they are just talking about Joseph from a different time (such as during part 2).
  • Those family trees aren't really made by Araki. That family tree was most likely made by Shueisha for a volume release and is thus information not from the original author, and surely should not be used to explain plot details.
  • Giorno should not have lost access to GER after the events of Part 5. Simply because there is nothing implying that even after losing the arrow that he lost access to it. No piece of material implies that, nor is it ever stated. The only tangentially related example is Chariot Requiem, where Polnareff took the arrow before Silver Chariot could fully transform. This is denied though by the fact that Chariot Requiem is stated multiple times to be incomplete. GER on the other hand has been stated to be a completed requiem and one that has fully fused with the power of the arrow. Having the arrow has never been shown to keep the requiem, but it has been shown as a way to maintain it, and it is HEAVILy implied that once someone has obtained a completed requiem, even after losing the arrow they can keep it.


I hope this clears some things up. It is a bit scatterbrained of ideas, but it should sum up most of my thought process, if you need clarification, please let me know since I am always willing to discuss things like this.
avatar

Spyromaniac666Green Dolphin St. Inmate

9 days ago
Score 0

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to give disagreements lol

I plan to update this later with better-shown evidence and updates to my reasoning, including changes based on your valid points.

I should also reword the post to more fit "how Time Stop could beat GER" rather than "can". I'll ping you if I have any questions

btw, my discord username differs from this one, so ping @Kojo in the jojowiki discord if you want