About each other’s beginnings
Araki: Shall we begin by talking about each other’s beginnings?
Kaneko: Yes.
Araki: The first question will be related to work, but are you also involved in writing the stories?
Kaneko: Officially not, but I contribute as well.
Araki: Ah, I knew it! Looking at the illustration books, I believe that, after all, you can’t draw without being involved in the story. Nevertheless, even though you only do the designs, it’s amazing how many you create. There are also a lot of descriptions regarding the characters’ backgrounds and so on, aren’t there? I design Stands combining those characteristics. For example, it would be strange if I
didn’t give a water Stand a certain type of design.
Kaneko: Of course, I think about the way the characters are and I draw them according to their personality type.
Araki: I see. For example, if something releases poisonous gas from its shoulders, it will definitely need a hole. Now the question is,
what kind of hole would be most fitting?
Kaneko: But when Jojo is in front of the Stand, there will also be strange poses and things like that, right? How does that work?
Araki: I’ll eventually get to that too. Just in a little while (laughs).
Kaneko: Oh, is it still your turn?
Araki: Yes, yes (laughs). I have things I want to ask.
Kaneko: Understood. Then please ask me (laughs).
Araki: First, my parents used to read to me all kinds of books when I was a wee little boy, like “The Adventures of Tom Sawyer” or Jules Verne’s “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea”. Only this kind of books and no Japanese ones at all. That’s why I grew up to be very attracted to foreign countries, even when it comes to food and music. And that’s also why I don’t really like Japanese food.
Kaneko: I’m not too fond of Japanese food either, but you see, my parents owned a sushi shop (laughs)/
Araki: Hahaha. Really?
Kaneko: I really came to hate it when I saw eels getting skewered after their eyes were removed (laughs). But, returning to the main question, I was more into Disney than Jules Verne. What about music? I can see from reading your works that you love Western music. I love it as well, but you know Takenoko-zokum right? I used to do that before.
Araki: That’s not Western music, is it (laughs).
Kaneko: But what about Dschinghis Khan? (laughs). They were very interesting. I stopped watching Yoru Hit, and quickly got into Western music and came to love funk and other styles.
Araki: I like progressive rock.
Kaneko: Eh, progressive rock? (laughs)
Araki: From the ‘70s. Bands like Yes or Emerson, Lake & Palmer.
Kaneko: Almost all your Stand names come from progressive rock bands, huh.
Araki: Well, yes but…(laughs)
Kaneko: I liked Esidisi [AC/DC] (laughs). It fit really well.
Araki: If the bands are foreign, using their names is ok. But this is definitely not the case for Japanese bands. That’s no good. Or maybe I should say, it’s empathy. It’s a bit strange, like “What kind of silly things is this guy talking about?” (laughs)
Kaneko: Well, Western bands also sing about rather silly things, right?
Araki: If I knew what they were saying, I’d get too embarrassed to continue listening (laughs). That’s why for me it’s about the rhythm, the propagation of sound. There’s a sort of space between the sounds. Like the subtlety of the strings, the pauses, the way the air vibrates. That’s why I’m fine with whatever that person sings.
Kaneko: Do you get motivated to work during times like this?
Araki: Yes, yes, I get motivated and I start crying.
Kaneko: Eh, you start crying? (laughs)
Araki: That’s right. “Oh〜, this is so sad〜” (laughs). Don’t you get sad even if the lyrics have nothing to do with it?
Kaneko: Oh, I do, I do. Similarly to diabolus in musica, making your emotions fluctuate, right? If you used it well, you’d even be able to manipulate people, don’t you think? (laughs)
Where do you collect data from?
Araki: Do you travel abroad to collect data?
Kaneko: No, not really.
Araki: Soo, you are the type to admire foreign countries from afar?
Kaneko: Well, I guess so. I read the books I have with utmost attention and absorb all the information the writers provide, but that’s pretty sly, isn’t it (laughs). But I’d love to travel if I had the time. You travel a lot, don’t you?
Araki: I only travel to certain places though; I’ve been to Italy many times, for example, and I love how it’s the “real deal”. Other countries just look like imitations in comparison – when I see sculptures or other works of art, I can only think “Oh, this is an imitation of that sculpture.”.
Kaneko: I want to look more into Japan’s underground, like the lifestyle of the people around Shinokubo or drug routes.
Araki: So you can include them in games?
Kaneko: Exactly. There are a lot of games that take place in our current times, so inevitably I got interested in present Tokyo. It’s not limited to the city, but the places where people gather have different appearances depending on the time of the day, so I wonder whether I can convey the impact of the contrast between noon and the darkness night brings. I simply like clubs and the like as well…
Araki: What kind of clubs do you visit?
Kaneko: I don’t, but now I go to a lot of spacious establishments. When I was young, I used to go to hobby shops quite a lot, but now… Before, there was no automatic water in clubs, so the toilets would be filled with ice and once it melted it would turn into automatic water. And then, if you went to the toilet at 4 a.m., you’d find the whole place drenched in blood.
Araki: Huh, why?
Kaneko: Group scuffles, it seems. Well, both scary and painful things happened, but looking and hearing about those rowdy times has become a very important factor to me now.
Araki: But if Tokyo is the main setting, then it’s all right. I first came up with the concept of “Stands” when I was in Egypt, since the people over there looked really suspicious. So I thought they were all bad guys.
Kaneko: Hahahaha.
Araki: It wouldn’t have been odd if anyone there had turned against me. No matter how kind they were to me, I just couldn’t trust them.
Kaneko: Sounds like something you won’t be able to let go of.
Araki: And that’s how I created Stands, the power of evil, or should I say, a different kind of power.
Kaneko: Ooh, is that why the manga takes place in Egypt?!
Araki: Exactly. Well, the editor loved Egypt as well; the inhabitants’ power was truly great.
Kaneko: As I thought, if you don’t go there it won’t actually be clear.
Araki: For that reason, the people closeby have great power, but the further they are, the weaker their power gets. I made all kinds of rules.
Kaneko: It would be boring if they were all-powerful. It’s good that the characters in your manga also have weak points they can overcome. We use demons in our games, but we thought of adding a slightly different nuance to it - “What if we used them as guardian spirits?”. That’s how the concept of Persona was born. We call them guardian spirits, but they are actually great Indian gods or all kinds of demons. Just as the name suggests, doesn’t Persona mean someone’s “personality”? One’s other self. So, how should I put it, there are all kinds of “other selves”, from the characters’ current appearance, to their manner of speech and even to their job. I thought I’d combine them all. That’s how the characters in the game started moving around naturally.
The impetus to start drawing
Araki: What made you become a graphic designer?
Kaneko: I’ve been drawing for a long time, but I wanted to become a manga artist at first. Later, in middle school, when I wanted to be popular with girls, I’d try to look like a badass, but fail (laughs). When I reached a certain age, I asked myself what job I’d take; I couldn’t become a musician, I couldn’t become anything. And the last option I had was drawing. Getting into a company was good, but I realized I didn’t have much strength by myself, so from then on I put a lot of effort into it.
Araki: You see, I went to the kendo club in school, but I wasn’t praised even once, whether I won or lost. However, when I’d draw manga, everyone would tell me how good I was. That’s how I started. My friends too would get really enthusiastic about it, like “This is the greatest thing ever!”
Kaneko: Hahaha. It looks like you already had editors by that time.
Araki: Yes, yes, they really sounded like editors (laughs). So I really got into this and would tell myself I’d keep drawing the entire following night as well. These designs [are influenced] by Go Nagai, right?
Kaneko: That’s right, Go Nagai’s influence is strong. Also, Kamen Rider, kaijuu…
Araki: Yes, the kaijuu effect is definitely there!
Kaneko: It’s impossible to say the name of all the kaijuu. But if I’m shown the Rider cards, I can tell everyone’s names. But you know what’s interesting? When you look into the designs and discover the original source of inspiration, like Ultra Seven’s monsters being the spitting image of clay figures (doguu).
Araki: Ah, yes, you’re right.
Kaneko: I realised this while I was wondering whether armour should have a (Western) clothes motif, but if you left out the armour it would have looked just like Ultraman’s costume; it becomes Western armour from the outline.
Araki: An extremely abstract image. Didn’t Picasso, after seeing African masks, want to see how simple he could make his own paintings? Same here. Ultraman’s form is indeed extreme. The type of design you simply can’t imitate, just like Snoopy. You generally can’t draw that sort of thing.
Kaneko: You start thinking why it is actually like that (laughs).
Araki: If you make Ultraman’s design simpler than this, he won’t look cool anymore.
Kaneko: Besides, anyone will be able to draw him. That’s why adding one thing after another is easy. Simplifying things, on the other hand, is really difficult.
Finally talking about fashion
Kaneko: What do you usually wear? Neatly fitted clothes?
Araki: I rarely wear ties and the like. And even then, is there a brand that actually suits me? There are brands that don’t fit me at all, that make me feel like I’m anything but myself. Prada, for example, or Gucci.
Kaneko: Indeed, this does tend to happen. I have a lot of Gaultier suits, but I go shopping often. Because of that, when people ask “Are people like mangaka coming?”, it seems they are pretty familiar with Jump authors like K.M. or T.B. Apparently, Mr. K.M once spent several tens of thousands yen on clothes. “That’s so awesome!”, I thought. It looks like Mr. T.B’s clothes are bought by his friends or his girlfriend though. In the end I realised that there are all kinds of mangaka as well! (laughs)
Araki: I don’t really go shopping. If we’re talking about brands, then my picks are Versace or Dolce & Gabbana; still, I’m not too crazy about them. However, when it comes to fashion, I love looking at models. Don’t you think models have this kind of spectre quality to them? The way they tilt their head or their mouths look oddly big. That kind of stuff captivates me. And so, by reproducing them, they gradually turn into Jojo-like characters (laughs) – like bending their hips back or forth. This kind of bending is also because of Italy.
Kaneko: So this is how they are turned into Jojo’s characteristic poses! Like, “ズキューン!!” or grabbing a blood vessel and going “You
should be still” (laughs). There’s a fairy named Trish in Persona who helps characters recover their health. Her name comes from the fashion model Trish Goff. Back when she wasn’t that famous I used to think “She’s so cute!”. Her name was interesting as well. But then she became super famous not long after and I thought “This is bad!” (laughs).
Araki: But I find it amazing that you knew about her from that time. She was already popular by the time I had created Trish Una.
Kaneko: All models have really cool names, don’t they? Like Shalom Harlow.
Araki: Her huge eyes are cool as well.
Kaneko: Lately, thin models have become more numerous than bigger ones, huh. Like Devon Aoki.
Araki: Devon Aoki has got a strange air about her too.
Kaneko: Did you know she is Rocky Aoki’s daughter?
Araki: Eh, is that so? Who is Rocky Aoki anyway (laughs).
Kaneko: Do you know the restaurants Benihana?
Araki: Oh, yes, yes.
Kaneko: He is the owner. Incidentally, isn’t there someone in Jojo part 4 who likes Ferré? “Is it because Mr.Araki likes him?” I wondered.
Araki: But the truth is, even if I write this, I think “They don’t know about it” while writing it, but do it anyway.
Kaneko: Moschino is the same, right?
Araki: Oh, oh, Moschino was good too! I was surprised when it appeared. The peace mark design came from there.
Kaneko: Double suits are characteristic to them too. The buttons are in the place of the eyes, forming a face. Lately, there have been new designs from John Galliano or Alexander McQueen. They’d make good Stands as well (laughs).
Araki: Also, I like Roberto Cavalli too. Quite a lot of people have been debuting these days. They don’t have shops in Tokyo though. They remind of that type of dangerous ladies. I think that kind of thing is great.
What flows from the root of your work
Kaneko: Your works are referenced in a lot of things, right? It’s kind of like Shakespeare, or, how should I put it, something not seen with other Japanese drama, literature or manga.
Araki: But you know, there’s also Kajiwara Ikki. “In order for small people to beat big people, you must think of yourself as a small fry!”, something like this (laughs). I find this kind of thought pattern moving. Like, “Don’t say such cool things!”. , I still got that kind of feeling even though I read that in my fourth year of elementary school.
Kaneko: I’m a bit startled that you’ve read Kajiwara Ikki’s works. It’s quite different from what I expected.
Araki: Truth is, I started with “Star of the Giants”.
Kaneko: Eh, no way?!
Araki: I think it was during my first year of elementary school…This is something I don’t usually say, but “Magazine” was the first publication I talked to in order to publish my first manga. However, incidentally during that time Kajiwara Ikki stopped serializing in “Magazine” so I switched over to “Jump” (laughs).
Kaneko: Eh, that’s seriously unexpected (laughs).
Araki: Despite saying I love foreign countries, I also love stories where poor people rise in the world.
Kaneko: When I see the photos in the tankoubon, it’s kind of rude of me to say, but I think you look like you had a good upbringing (laughs).
Araki: Hahahaha.
Kaneko: Because of that, when you write about Kishibe Rohan and those kind of stories, all the more I wonder “Is this really all right?” (laughs)
Araki: But you are surprising as well. You had a more frightening image.
Kaneko: I’m often told that. I have more of an role-playing personality. Truth is, I’m a pretty easy-going guy. Speaking of manga, I was into “The Genius Bakabon”.
Araki: Oh, Akatsuka Fujio-sensei (laughs). It was quite a thing (laughs). Great stuff.
Kaneko: I simply loved the surrealistic setting, couldn’t get enough of it. After all, it’s the person who discovered Tamori! In a way, he raised him and turned him into who he is today.
Araki: Speaking of settings, I went to a Christian school. That’s why I read the Bible every day and that particular way of thinking got ingrained in my brain.
Kaneko: Is that so! Was it a Catholic school?
Araki: No, it was a Protestant one. As a kid, I thought “What the…?” at the disciple’s betrayal, but as an adult I understood how important it was. Different kinds of literary works also have their roots in it, and I’ve come to understand all kinds of allusions. However, in my case, rather than believing in God, I believe something exists. It’s difficult to say it concretely, but it includes destiny. Because of that, if the basis of my works doesn’t have that kind of thing, they become something scary. “Why am I drawing manga?”, stuff like that. Am I doing it in order to earn money or to impress women? In time, they become terrible things to feel. But if I have fairness and humanity, I persevere.
Kaneko: Indeed, if you don’t have human love, you can’t draw. It’s obviously fine if you can get money out of this as well though (laughs). But doing it just for this is not right.
Araki: You definitely need it in order to continue, don’t you think?
Kaneko: It also gets difficult when you start thinking “Why do people exist?”.
Araki: You reach this question when you draw about things like destiny – “Why is this person here?”. If you’re attached to the protagonist,the question gets even more important. The people who make RPGs feel that to an even higher degree, right?
Kaneko: That’s right. We think about the inevitable fate of the characters. Don’t animals exist on the earth freely? Earthworms exist to clean the soil, isn’t their purpose to leave descendants? However, only humans do something different.
Araki: But if that kind of world comes to the surface, then it’s no good. We shouldn’t see the lowest of the lowest. However, if they didn’t exist, then it would get even worse. Not only manga, but also music and just about everything.[8]