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Tonkam Interviews
Golden Wind Vol 1

Tonkam : Etant donné qu'avec JoJo, vous avez créé votre propre univers, quelles sont vos références artistiques ?

Hirohiko Araki : Babel II (une bande dessinnée japonaise) et L'Inspecteur Harry (film américain avec Clint Eastwood).

Tonkam : Cela fait plus de vingt ans que vous êtes sur une même série. Comment faites-vous pour tenir aussi longtemps ?

Hirohiko Araki : J'ai un rythme de vie sain. Je me couche tôt, je me lève tôt, etc..., ce qui me permet de ne pas être trop fatigué.

Tonkam : D'où vous est venue l'idée des Stands ?

Hirohiko Araki : En général, les pouvoirs paranormaux sont invisibles et donc difficiles à représenter. Ici, je voulais leur donner une réelle apparence, pour our que l'on puisse correctement se rendre compte de ce dont il s'agit.

Tonkam : Avez-vous une réserve permanente de Stands, ou bien les créez-vous sur le vif ?

Hirohiko Araki : Lorsque les idées me viennent, je prends toujours des notes pour pouvoir les utiliser ou non. J'ai donc une réserve que j'alimente au fur et à mesure et où je pioche en fonction de mes besoins.

Tonkam : Quel est votre personnage préféré dans JoJo ?

Hirohiko Araki : Josuké Higashikata de Diamond is Unbreakable la 4e partie ?

Tonkam : Et votre Stand favori ?

Hirohiko Araki : Les fermetures Eclairs du Sticky Fingers de Buccellati, dans la 5e partie.

Tonkam : Pour beaucoup de lecteurs, Golden Wind est considéré comme la meilleure partie de JoJo. A quoi attribuez-vous cette popularité ?

Hirohiko Araki : Je pense que, par rapoort aux autres saisons, un tel succès est probablement dû à la classe et au style des personnages, différents de d'habitude. A moins qu'il ne s'agisse plus simplement du passé et du destin tragique de ces personnes.

Tonkam : Pourquoi être passé en Italie tout d'un coup ?

Hirohiko Araki : Je trouve que l'Italie est un pays très dramatique, chargé de sens et qui convient bien aux histoires de destinées. En plus, du point de vue d'un Japonais il s'agit d'un très beau pays, tout comme la France.

Tonkam : A quand une partie de JoJo en France ?

Hirohiko Araki : J'aimerais effectivement bien essayer. Malheureusement, le français est une langue difficile et je pense que j'aurais du mal à me documenter.

Tonkam : Un petit mot pour vos fans français ?

Hirohiko Araki : Pour moi, la France est le pays de l'art, et a une grande sensibilité pour les belles choses. Je suis très honoré d'y avoir des lecteurs.

Tonkam : Merci.

-

Volume 1

Connaissez-vous 奇妙的冒險 ?

Katsuki Hamamatsu, rédacteur en chef de la revue Fanroad

Maître Araki, àa faisait longtemps. Je tiens encore à vous remercier, ainsi que votre éditeur, pour votre collaboration consacré à Baoh Le Visiteur. Vous aviez alors parlé de votre prochaine série intitulée JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, que je suis depuis le début dans les pages du Shonen Jump. Je dois reconnaître que vous avez comblé toutes mes attentes ! Vos compositions graphiques étranges, à l'instar des "trompe-l'oeil" de l'Europe ancienne, sont de plus en plus intéressantes, et à ceci s'ajoute cette idée si unique d'"Ondes". Je suis comme absorbé par la force magique du masque de pierre, et il me tarde de pouvoir lire la suite.

Très vite, les lecteurs de notre revue ont également exprimé leur fascination, non seulement pour les tournures de phrases "Araki-esques" mais aussi pour votre univers héroïque. Dans notre revue, où les goûts des fans de des auteurs se rejoignent "vigoureusement" (c'est un véritable "onde" de choc !), il n'aura pas fallu longtemps pour que la série fasse un vrai tabac. Dans le bureau de notre rédaction, nous jouons à l'"Onde", en vociférant des attaques du genre "par la pulsation du coeur !" ou "chaleur irradiante !".

En effet, malgré son passé tragique, JoJo acquiert non seulement du courage mais aussi une force singulière qui a pour nom "onde". Il est en train de devenir, à mes yeux, un héros d'un nouveau genre, comme le fut Ikuro dans Baoh. Au fait, connaissez-vous 奇妙的冒險 ?

C'est le titre en chinois de la série JoJo que j'ai trouvé à Taîwan, lors d'une visite pour la revue. Ils ont déjà publié trois volumes. Il semblerait que la série ait du succès non seulement au Japon mais aussi à l'étranger. Je vous offrirai ces livres prochainement. En souhaitant que ces drôles d'aventures ne s'arrêtent jamais !

PS. Maître, allons déguster de bonnes choses prochainement.

Volume 2 La Saga JoJo's Bizarre Asventure est un savoureux mélange de personnages bizarres de dialogues bizarres et d'onomatopées bizarres.

Kouji Koseki, auteur de manga.

"C'est palpitant !!" Voulà le terme qui exprime le mieux tout ce que je pense à propos de la série JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

Non seulement j'adore son scénario grandiose (qu'un humain lambda n'imaginerait jamais) mais aussi et sourtout les dialogues ! Chaque mot que figure dans les histoires de monsieur Araki a le on de pénétrer dans le cerveau pour le secouer en profondeur. Nul n'arrive à imiter sa sensibilité ! Ca dépasse largement le sens commun ! Peutre-être est-ce là l'un des pouvoirs surnaturels de son auteur !

Je me surprends à tourner chaque page, le coeur palpitant à l'affût des mots qui vont me sauter dessus, des nouvelles onomatopée qui vont naître... J'imagine bien monsieur Araki en train de se frotter le menton, un sourire malicieux en coin, pendant qu'il réfléchit à ces dialogues et à ces bruitages.

Pour finir, je citerai une de mes scènes préférées, en dehors de JoJo, tirée de Baoh le Visiteur. Dans le tome 1 page 67, dans la cinquième case, quand l'oiseau dit "merci !" avec sa langue courte.

Je ne connais personne d'autre qui soit capable de donner autant d'impact à une si petite case et à la parole insignifiante d'un volatile.

Cher monsieur Araki, nous sommes voisons mais nous nous voyons peu. Qu'à cela ne tienne : à la prochainne occasion, allons nous a-mu-ser ! (comme des gamins...)

Tonkam Interviews
Golden Wind Vol 1

Tonkam: Since you created your own universe with JoJo, what are your artistic references?

Hirohiko Araki: Babel II (a Japanese comic book) and Dirty Harry (an American film with Clint Eastwood).

Tonkam: You've been working on the same series for over twenty years. How do you manage to keep going for so long?

Hirohiko Araki: I have a healthy lifestyle. I go to bed early, I get up early, etc., which allows me not to be too tired.

Tonkam: Where did you get the idea of Stands?

Hirohiko Araki: In general, paranormal powers are invisible and therefore difficult to represent. Here, I wanted to give them a real appearance, so that we can properly realize what they are.

Tonkam: Do you have a permanent supply of Stands, or do you create them on the fly?

Hirohiko Araki: When ideas come to me, I always take notes so I can use them or not. So I have a reserve that I feed as I go along and from which I draw according to my needs.

Tonkam: Who is your favorite character in JoJo?

Hirohiko Araki: Josuké Higashikata from Diamond is Unbreakable part 4?

Tonkam: And your favourite stand?

Hirohiko Araki: Buccellati's Sticky Fingers and its zipper, in part 5.

Tonkam: For many readers, Golden Wind is considered the best part of JoJo. To what do you attribute this popularity?

Hirohiko Araki: I think that, compared to the other seasons, such a success is probably due to the class and the style of the characters, different from usual. Unless it's simply the past and the tragic fate of these people.

Tonkam: Why did you go to Italy all of a sudden?

Hirohiko Araki: I think Italy is a very dramatic country, full of meaning and well suited to stories of destiny. Moreover, from a Japanese point of view it is a very beautiful country, just like France.

Tonkam: When will there be a JoJo part set in France?

Hirohiko Araki: I would indeed like to try. Unfortunately, French is a difficult language and I think it would be difficult for me to get information.

Tonkam: A little word for your French fans?

Hirohiko Araki: For me, France is the country of art, and has a great sensitivity for beautiful things. I am very honoured to have readers there.

Tonkam: Thank you.

-

Volume 1

Do you know 奇妙的冒險?

Katsuki Hamamatsu, editor-in-chief of Fanroad magazine

Master Araki, a long time ago. I would like to thank you again, as well as your editor, for your collaboration devoted to Baoh The Visitor. At the time, you talked about your next series called JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, which I have been following since the beginning in the pages of Shonen Jump. I must admit that you have fulfilled all my expectations! Your strange graphic compositions, like the "trompe-l'oeil" of ancient Europe, are more and more interesting, and to this is added this so unique idea of "Ripple". I am absorbed by the magical power of the Stone Mask and I can't wait to read more.

Very soon, the readers of our magazine also expressed their fascination, not only for the "Araki-esque" speech patterns but also for your heroic world. In our magazine, where the tastes of the fans of the authors meet "vigorously" (it's a real "shock wave"!), it didn't take long for the series to become a real hit. In our editorial office, we play at using the "Ripple", vociferating attacks like "by the heartbeat!" or "radiant heat!".

Indeed, despite his tragic past, JoJo is acquiring not only courage but also a singular strength called "ripple". He is becoming, in my eyes, a new kind of hero, like Ikuro was in Baoh. By the way, do you know 奇妙的冒險?

That's the Chinese title of the JoJo series I found in Taiwan, during a visit for the magazine. They have already published three volumes. It seems that the series is successful not only in Japan but also abroad. I will offer you these books soon. I wish that these funny adventures never end!

PS. Master, let's have some good food soon.

Volume 2 The JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Saga is a tasty mix of weird characters, weird dialogue and weird onomatopoeia.

Kouji Koseki, manga author.

"It's thrilling!!!" That is the term that best expresses everything I think about the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure series.

Not only do I love the great storyline (which a normal human would never imagine) but also the dialogues! Every word in Mr Araki's stories has the ability to penetrate the brain and shake it to its core. No one can imitate his sensitivity! It goes far beyond common sense! Perhaps this is one of the supernatural powers of the author!

I find myself turning each page, my heart palpitating as I wait for the words that will jump out at me, the new onomatopoeia that will be born... I can imagine Mr Araki rubbing his chin, a mischievous smile on his face, while he thinks about these dialogues and sound effects.

Finally, I'll quote one of my favourite scenes, apart from JoJo, from Baoh the Visitor. In volume 1 page 67, in the fifth box, when the bird says "Thank you!" with its short tongue.

I don't know anyone else who is able to give so much impact to such a small box and to the insignificant word of a bird.

Dear Mr Araki, although we are neighbour, we don't see each other very much. Never mind: the next time we see each other, let's have a good laugh! (like kids...)

Araki x Arakawa
2011 - Cross interview between Hirohiko Araki and Hiromu Arakawa

This cross interview is a transcription by @natdaemon of a translation by Jasmine Bretcha (Japanese to French), available in Fullmetal Alchemist Chronicle from Kurokawa in their KuroPOP collection. Hiromu Arakawa has always read the works of Hirohiko Araki since her childhood. In 2011, Araki is approaching its thirty years of career. From the appeal of their works to the surprising common points between the hymn to humanity and the principle of equivalence, here is the interview of the century between two people on the front line in the world of manga shonen!

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, the manga that gives you courage.

Arakawa: I read your manga since Baoh: The Visitor. And of course, I love reading JoJo's Bizarre Adventure since the first part. I am honored to meet you today!

Araki: Ooh! I am very happy that you have been reading me for so long. Thank you so much!

Arakawa: In elementary school, my older sisters used to buy Shonen Jump. And I had precisely found in our barn the number with the first chapter of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. I went to read it in a dark barn where some agricultural equipment were stored, and I was completely captivated.

Araki: The perfect atmosphere (laughs).

Arakawa: I was scared. But I was still really into it (laughs)! I was still a child at the time, and I imitated the Ripple and the Stands (laughs). Knowing that I was going to meet you, I wondered what made JoJo's Bizarre Adventure so appealing to me. And I told myself that it is the fact that it gives courage.

Araki: Fullmetal Alchemist is also a captivating series. When I read it, it makes me reflect on the origins of humanity. Through the system of alchemy, we go as far as researching the mechanisms of nature and the human world. I found it great.

Arakawa: Oh, thank you very much! When I thought about the origins of mankind, I asked myself what courage and pride was, and I thought I couldn't pass by these aspects. The protagonists of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, allies and enemies alike, are all proud and live a hard life. I find them admirable, Iggy in particular. Making me cry with a dog who chews gum, it's really ... The scene where Lisa Lisa puts her cigarette upside down also immediately comes to mind. I also appreciate Stroheim's Resolve. I really love all the characters.

Araki: Ahahah (laughs)! It's because half of his body is made up of cybernetics prostheses. This is not something unknown in the Fullmetal Alchemist universe. Personally, I like Armstrong. I appreciate the characters who let their passion run wild while keeping their seriousness. The scene where he and Sig were staring at each other and took poses was really funny. Conversely, the one where Al is deteriorated is quite intense. His seal could disappear at any time, that kept me going.

Arakawa: Yes, he had to protect him (laughs}.

'''Was naming your characters "Elric" a risk? The universe of manga in the years 70-80.'''

Arakawa: Speaking of what makes JoJo's Bizarre Adventure so appealing, I think there is a single speech pattern. I let the JoJo no kimyô na hyakunin isshi CD play at my work place, and I had assistants who could recite it by heart without even having read the manga.

Araki: Unbelievable (laughs). These lines, I created them by thinking about the points of view of the characters and why they confront each other, but I did not take my thinking so far as making my lines popular, cult, or as moving as that. I'm happy to hear you say it.

Arakawa: I ​​would unconsciously come out of lines from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure in my everyday life. You may have brought more readers than you thought. It is a work of powerful words.

Araki: You know, my characters however use a vocabulary that's vulgar on purpose for a simple reason: my manga uses genre elements, like horror, and I didn't want my characters to behave in a polite way. When I draw, the antagonisms are always present with me, the white and the black, the good and evil, the beautiful and the ugly; it was out of the question that the vulgar side of the human would not be represented in my stories.

Araki: But you know, it wasn't until about ten years after the start of the series that I received some recognition. At the time, I was told that it would be complicated to me with a non-Japanese character and a setting of the action set abroad. Such a manga was in danger of being questioned at any time by the magazine's editorial team. I was also strangely insolent at the time: I wanted to defy the rules of shonen manga and the idea that we have of it. As long as I respected the principles of Shonen Jump. "Friendship, effort, victory ”, why not include elements from abroad?

Arakawa: Besides, the story begins with Aztec people.

Araki: It's so confusing (laughs)!

Arakawa: No, for occult lovers like me, it was great!

Araki: At the time, I was told that stories in horror costume would not work not in the manga market. It's a miracle that a editor appreciated my universe and helped me make JoJo's Bizarre Adventure into a series. That's why at the time, choosing the name “Elric” would have been a risk (laughs).

Arakawa: “Refused” (laughs)!

Araki: Was it easy to decide?

Arakawa: I think it was accepted because Enix (currently Square Enix) is a game company. On the contrary, it was intended for readers accustomed to RPGs, names that sound like "fantasy" were not a problem.

Araki: I understand. The times have changed.

Great masters who have become inspirations

Araki: Your style, while remaining modern, gives me the impression that you have been influenced by Mitsuteru Yokoyama (1934-2004). He is both alive and a little nostalgic. Al's armor in particular reminds me of Tesujin 28-gô and brings a retro feel. That's great.

Arakawa: Thank you very much. I love Tetsujin 28-96.

Araki: When Al fights, I feel like I'm seeing the big moves of Mr. Yokoyama, I find that superb. I also like to see the shadows of enemies spread as if they grew, it is a very strong mark of your style. Also, your character's dynamic movements are reminiscent of Sanpei Shirato (1932). This really called out to me.

Arakawa: So I was influenced by Mr. Yokoyama and Mr. Shirato? Now that you say it, it's true (laughs).

Araki: In my case, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure was also greatly influenced by Mr. Shirato. When I was working on Cool Shock BT, my drawing style was not yet asserted. I imitated Mr. Shirato and kept telling myself that this was not my own style. It is with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure that I finally got there. The works of Mr. Shirato and Mr. Yokoyama are a bible for me, reallly like manuals.

Arakawa: I also appreciate what Mr. Yokoyama is doing, I have read The Three Kingdoms and Tetsujin 28-gô. It is strange, because one can easily read them whereas they are historical works with intricate designs.

Araki: Also, when reading Fullmetal Alchemist, it reminded me of Dororo from Osamu Tezuka (1928-1989). The protagonist has artificial limbs and recovers the missing parts of his body.

Arakawa: Ah, I am often told that.

Araki: Are there things that you have trouble drawing as a manga artist? I have always found your designs flexible and your layout fluid.

Arakawa: I was careful not to give a negative impression by paying attention to the words and the drawings. Before, I worked in a rehabilitation center as a security agent and I often came across people who had lost their limbs in accidents. Many of them accepted their fate and tried to be positive, which is extremely important when undergoing such a severe test. I told myself they had to go through a lot of frustrations and difficult situations. This is why I wanted to represent moving forward in life. It was from this that Fullmetal Alchemist was born.

The dignity of characters watching over the hymn to humanity and the principle of equivalence

Araki: I like logical works where rules have been established. In a universe without limits, one cannot carry out a story: it becomes rather difficult to represent. The suspense and horror being actually constructed in a logical manner, I always wanted to make them foundations of my story. This is why I am opposed to bringing a character who's already dead. On this point, the constraint of the principle of equivalence is maintains until the end in Fullmetal Alchemist. I appreciate this.

Arakawa: These are the characters that I created, so I wanted to take the responsibility. If they survive, they will now have a purpose. If they die, I wanted their death to make sense.

Araki: Yes, it's important to give love to all of your characters. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure's theme is “the hymn to humanity”, so I think the same.

Arakawa: In an interview in the book ''JOJO A GO! GO !'', you said you were "drawing for Humanity.” I found this statement admirable and I imagine it has something to do with this "hymn to humanity", am I wrong?

Araki: Did I really say that kind of stuff (laughs)? As you said, the theme of the manga being "the anthem to humanity", I draw for people. In my opinion, they are the first to convince, so leaving the characters dead is also to pay your respect to them. Of course, there is no problem reviving a character if the manner in which he resuscitates follows the established rules of history.

Arakawa: The rules on the Stands are particularly interesting. What determines the outcome of a fight does not depend on a simple comparison of powers or ranking, but from ability to judge the use of these Stands and the capacities of the Stand itself.

Araki: Yes. The strength of Stands lies in the fact that they are difficult to classify. Since the start of serialization of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, the standard stories in manga shonen were built around a tournament. The higher we went, the more the opponent was strong: it was a world of rankings. I had doubts about this method, so I opted for a road movie type story for part 3.

Arakawa: It is by questioning yourself that new elements come to you.

Araki: I wonder if such a thing is weird or not: this reasoning can become a starting point for a manga artist, so I want to do it. For example, in the Hollywood movie Transformers, cars turn into colossal robots compared to their original form. It doesn't take into account the principle of equivalence (laughs).

Arakawa: Aah, when I am told this, I make the connection between Rohan Kishibe and you. At some points, I happened to blurt out during a meeting with my editor that you had made your debut with Pink Dark Boy (laughs). I think in truth you have both been my models as a mangaka.

Araki: Oh yeah? It's funny (laughs). It's fun to make manga coincide with reality.

A mangaka concerned between trend and individuality

Arakawa: Since Jump included a lot of titles, each with their own singularity, the competition between mangakas must be very tough.

Araki: After my debut, we had to fight constantly. I definitely couldn't draw like other mangakas would, so we can say in a sense that I established my style while narrowing that gap. I think I wouldn't have chosen this kind of drawing, which is deliberately dark, if it was to seek the approval of readers. In my opinion, it is more recognition than popularity.

Arakawa: My editor also said to me "put more your personal touch!" " only to say to me "do it in a more modern way!" (Laughs). What is it then,"my personal touch"? I wondered.

Araki: Yes, I was also told: "your drawings are too dark", "there are too many flaws ”,“ but add your personal touch” (laughs). There was always have something to complain about.

Arakawa: It's very difficult to mix "trend" and "individuality". Because following the trend is ultimately to copy. When I started out in Gangan, there were a lot of titles in neutral and cute drawing style. So a manga with lots of flat blacks, thick lines and with grandpas, it was ...

Araki: It's true that there are a lot of old people in Fullmetal Alchemist (laughs). Just like you, I tried not to follow the fashion point too much. I would like if people who wish to become a mangaka not only listen to what the editor says, but also go forward without losing heart. You should not just receive advice, but assimilate it in your own way. And above all, never read Twitter!

Arakawa: I have no intention of using Twitter. If I could think of anything interesting, I prefer to incorporate it into my work. I don't want to waste the potential of a manga like this. It would be like posting a preparatory notebook before the manga release.

Araki: Hmm. I think it's better to assert what you want to say with your manga when you chooses to live off it. Even if it means being criticized, you should be criticized alongside it.

Arakawa: Speaking of notebook, in my case, I would sleep in my futon at night and would write on it what came through my head while in the dark.

Araki: Ah, that's a bit strange. Was it to relax or out of enthusiasm?

Arakawa: But since I write notes when I'm sleepy, I don't understand a thing when I wake up in the morning.

Araki: Oh! I too had taken notes, and once I had noted: "He keeps on bleeding from the nose, it's scary”. I really didn't understand what kind of story I wanted to write with that (laughs)...

'''About us ten years from now on. The end of your trip to Italy? '''

Arakawa: What do you think are the reasons why the manga spread throughout Japan and has become popular abroad? It is of course thanks to great precursors, but I was thinking rather about the qualities and characteristics of manga as a means of expression

Araki: I think the application of cinematographic techniques to manga that Mr. Tezuka's introduced was a first major event. Then I think this is due to the presence of bookstores: they are everywhere in Japan.

Arakawa: The conditions have been relatively favorable. Plus, I think the strength of manga is that you can add various elements to it.

Araki: Manga does not emit sound, but apart from that, it is a fairly flexible. This is exactly what made the Japanese react. Now manga is becoming recognized globally. If there was a system capable of reliably delivering the manuscripts in the editorial department, I would continue my career as a mangaka while living in Italy.

Arakawa: By the way, in ''JOJO A GO! GO !'', it seems to me that you said that you would like to semi-retire in the Italian countryside in 10 or 20 years. And the book has now been released 10 years ago.

Araki: 10 years already (laughs)? In any case my desire has not changed!

Arakawa: No, continue drawing manga, please!

Araki: I wouldn't know what to do if I had to stop (laughs). But I really like Japan, so I will not emigrate to Italy even though it is a country of mystical energies. Me too, I like desert landscapes abroad.

Arakawa: Ah, like in Babel II!

Araki: Yes, there is a scene where the protagonist advances in the desert dressed with his school uniform. This combination had given me tears in my eyes without me knowing why. It is perhaps due to the contrast between death and youth.

Arakawa: It is the feeling of desolation characteristic of the desert. We can go anywhere without being able to go anywhere. I have always wanted to travel the Silk Road; cross the desert and ruins, then arrive in Rome.

Araki: That's great. I also like this kind of solo trip. In the summer, while I was still a high school student, I went in 2 or 3 weeks to Hokkaido by bike, my tent on my back.

Arakawa: I had a similar experience when I was a student. This is why I say that once I set foot on the Silk Road, I would make a manga of it. And you, after having continued your career, how about seeing each other again in 10 years in Italy (laughs)? I will come to meet you on the Silk Road.

Araki: Ohh, what a great idea! Well, it's okay, let's meet in 10 years to talk about manga in Italy. On the other hand, you will not want me if, for my part, I will travel by plane!

UOMO December 11 & 18, 2021
高橋一生が岸辺露伴への愛を語る！ ドラマ「岸辺露伴は動かない」２週連続ロングインタビュー（前編）

昨年に続き、この2021年末にも12月27日（月）、28日（火）、29日（水）の3夜連続で放送される、荒木飛呂彦による人気コミック原作のNHKドラマ「岸辺露伴は動かない」. 主人公である奇妙なマンガ家・岸辺露伴を演じる高橋一生が、作品へのありあまる想いを愛情たっぷりに語り倒す. ２週連続の前後編でお届けします！

黄金の精神を持つ人間が一人しかいないとしたら.
――今度の「岸辺露伴は動かない」で放送されるエピソードは、第4話が「ザ・ラン」、第5話が「背中の正面」、第6話が「六壁坂」となっています. 「背中の正面」のみ『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険』本編（Part4 ダイヤモンドは砕けない）からのエピソードとなっていますが、このラインナップに決まったとき、どう思いましたか？

高橋　5話がどのように4話、6話のブリッジになるのかとは思いました. ただ、演出の渡辺一貴さんと脚本の小林靖子さんをはじめとした、『ジョジョ』シリーズの世界が大好きな方々が熟考して、さまざまな過程を経て作られている脚本です. 大前提として、何の不安もありませんでした. 一貴さんとは、「『岸辺露伴は動かない』の舞台である杜王町の世界線には、”黄金の精神”の持ち主がひとりしかいないと仮定すると…」と現場で雑談したことがあります. 康一くんがいない世界であり、クソったれ仗助も、アホの億泰も、プッツン由花子もいない世界. つまり「第4部の杜王町とは違う世界線にいる岸辺露伴だとしたら…」と考えたりもしていたわけです. となると、もしかしたら泉京香（露伴の担当編集者）が黄金の精神を持つ人になり得るのかもしれないし、あるいは志士十五（露伴と同じ出版社で連載を抱える漫画家. 第2話に登場）が、「くしゃがら」後そうなり得るのかもしれない. そう考えると、このドラマでは「スタンド」という言葉を使わずに、「ギフト」という言葉に変更していることが腑に落ちてきます.

――なるほど. 違う世界線にいる岸辺露伴ですか.

高橋　幸い原作者である荒木飛呂彦さんが、“一巡後の世界”（編集部注：『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険 Part6ストーンオーシャン』）という概念を作ってくださっていたので、とてもスムーズにその可能性を露伴に載せることができました. ただ、個人的には「起こるべくして起こること」は、どの世界線でも絶対的なものであると思っています. このドラマでは、杉本鈴美（『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険 Part4 ダイヤモンドは砕けない』に登場）にあたる人物が仮にいなかったとしても、これから先のエピソードが描かれるなら、露伴自身の過去や血脈、運命に向き合う物語が立ち上がってくるはずです. どの世界線においても、運命として避けて通れない事柄は、露伴が乗り越えなければならないこととして現れます. ドラマを観てくださる方には「なら、このエピソードは運命の役割として、露伴が持つ“黄金の精神”の何を補強するものになるのか」と感じてもらえれば、原作のファンの方ならずともおもしろく観ていただけるのかもしれません.

意図してチンチロリンを想起させる動きを入れ込んでいます.
――そういったパラレルワールドというか、マルチバース的な考え方は最初からあったんですか？

高橋　はい. 露伴が27歳という設定に対して僕は40過ぎです. 年齢と経験は必ずしも比例しませんが、今回の『岸辺露伴は動かない』の世界に、僕の肉体を持つ岸辺露伴をどう立たせるかと考えたとき、一巡した、あるいは別の世界線と捉えることで、自分自身に説得力を持たせることができるかもしれないとは、第1話の冒頭のシーンを読んだときから考えの中にありました. 細かいことですが、仗助にあたる人物とこの世界線の露伴はチンチロリンをやったのかもしれないし、火事で家が半焼したのかもしれない. あるいはこの先のエピソードでイカサマにまつわる何かが起きるのかもしれない. そういう可能性を観る方に委ねつつ、“無意識にせよ因縁めいたものをサイコロに感じている露伴”として動きに取り入れています（編集部注：2021年放送のドラマ「岸辺露伴は動かない」第3話「D.N.A」）.

――そうだったんですね.

高橋　もしかしたら違うエピソードとして出てくるかもしれないという可能性を僕なりに示唆したかったこともあります. 昨年放送された第１話から、そう考えていました. 演出家と俳優の関係性にあっては演出とお芝居で会話ができるので、一貴さんと“一巡後の世界”の概念を直接話したのは事前の打ち合わせではなく撮影の合間の雑談でした. 一貴さんも近しいことは考えられていたみたいで、その部分の共通認識を持てたことによって、さらに世界が強固になったのは確かです.

――昨年末の時点では、単純にシリーズ化として続編を期待していましたけど、一生さん自身も当初から先を見越して、いろいろなことを考えていたんですね.

高橋　今後展開するならば、の願望を持つことは、今までのどの作品においてもそうでありたいと思ってきましたし、そうあってきました. 今回のドラマにおいては、「シャーロック」のようにシリーズ化して続いていくなら単純に幸福だなと思っていました. ありがたいことに反響が大きかったということもあり早い段階から続編の話をいただいていましたが、実を言うとそれより前から続編の話は出ていたんです. 撮影中からチーム内には手応えなのか、不思議と続編を感じている方が多かった. そこに反響があったということを経て、続編決定のお話をいただきました. 同じ役を年跨ぎで演じ続けることができるのは、なかなか経験できることではありませんし、それが岸辺露伴という人間だったこと、また岸辺露伴から離れないでいられたことは素晴らしい体験でした. スタッフの方々も、前作とほぼ変わらず皆さん参加してくださってその皆さんが僕演じる露伴を生かし続けてくれていた. 露伴としての生活に戻る基盤を用意してくれていたので、それを含めて幸福な時間だったなと.

ドラマの中ではアニメ的なことも取り入れてみました.
――「岸辺露伴から離れないでいられたことは素晴らしい体験でした」という発言（インタビュー前編）がありましたが、今回特に意識したことはありましたか？

高橋　当たり前のことですが、昨年の1話、2話、3話を経ての今回の露伴であるということです. 露伴としての実在性をさらに強化するために、昨年から今年まで生きていたことを感じられるようにしたいと考えていました. 加えて、好きなアニメーションのことも考えていました. 優れたアニメーションは、画面内のキャラクターをコントロールしているように思います. 意図してフリーズさせたり、動かしたりすることで、観る人間の視点をコントロールしていると感じるんです. 例えばアニメにおいてはしゃべりかけられている相手が画面内にいる場合、静止していることもあるわけです. 手間だから動かさないことももちろんあると思いますし、意図してそうしていることもあると思います. ですが、人間が身体で芝居をする以上、相手が台詞をしゃべっているときに自分が台詞を言うときまで突っ立って待っているという状況はないわけです. 最終的にはどちらも観る人間に向かっていく「作品」ではありますが、見せていく手法には決定的な違いがありながら相関しているとも感じているので、『岸辺露伴は動かない』では前述のようなアニメ的なことも取り入れています. これはとても面白がりながらやらせていただきました. 今後のお芝居においても、重要なことかもしれないと勉強させていただきながら.

鈴美や鈴美に代わる存在が出てくるのを期待しています.
――すこし気は早いですが、また新たな続編がつくられるとして、やってみたいエピソードは何かありますか？

高橋　一貴さんと一致しているのは「ジャンケン小僧がやって来る！」（『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険 Part4 ダイヤモンドは砕けない』に収録）です.

――おぉ、ジャンケン対決！　ぜひ観てみたいです！

高橋　露伴は「夕柳台」（短編小説集「岸辺露伴は戯れない」に収録）でも、第1話の「富豪村」でもそうですが、子ども相手に本気になる描写があります. そこには信念を試される場面に年齢が関係ないことを感じますが、「ジャンケン小僧」では少年の向こうに自分の乗り越えるべき運命を見ています. しつこくジャンケンを挑んでくる少年に対して「何だ、このガキ」と思っているところから、「この少年が持ってきた運命は、今乗り越えなければ何度も起きてくる」と思いはじめていく. 側から見たら子どもと小競り合いをしているようでも、実はそこに自分として生き切ることへの真理があると思っています. そういった意味でも、「ジャンケン小僧がやって来る！」はエピソードとして出てきてほしいと思います.

――杉本鈴美とのエピソード（『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険 Part4 ダイヤモンドは砕けない』に収録）はいかがですか？　露伴のルーツにもつながる話なので、ぜひ観てみたいです.

高橋　続編があるなら、いずれ鈴美や鈴美に代わる存在が出てくるとは思っています. 期待も込めてですが. 僕の考えでしかありませんが、露伴の能力である「ヘブンズ・ドアー」でさまざまな人間の生い立ちや秘密を読んでいく好奇心や興味が向かう先は、どこかで自分に向けられているんじゃないかと思います. 寺の住職に言われて初めて鈴美との記憶を思い出していく原作のエピソードは、ドラマが続くのであれば必然性を伴って起こってくるように思います. 鈴美や藤倉奈々瀬（「岸辺露伴 ルーヴルへ行く」に登場）のような、自分の過去、露伴という人格を決定付けた影響力のある存在や、ファム・ファタール的な存在が出てくると、露伴の魂の奥行きが見えてくる気がしているので、実現するとますますおもしろくなりそうです.