User:Chritin/Sandbox 2

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=Blog 1, Powerscaling=

Welcome one and all, to hopefully the first of many blogs I will be creating on Powerscaling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure! This blog can hopefully be a point of discussion, friendly debate, and learning for all not just about JoJo, but about Powerscaling and my thoughts with it. Before we get into the fun though, I have a few things to get out of the way.

I won't lie to you, Powerscaling, Vs Debates, anything of the sorts, are weird. Most people really don't get much experience in the community, outside of watching a Death Battle video here or there. Honestly I don't blame anyone for thinking it is weird, especially considering how toxic it can be, and how convoluted it is. So of all things, why would I be interested in it, let alone talk about it with you all. Simply put... I don't know. I guess one of the main things I can pinpoint is just that natural incline many people have to represent the "most powerful character in fiction", and while I don't think any JoJo character is close to that level, I'm happy to represent a series I love and show people their true power among fiction. As well, I know many people will have a similar answer to this idea. How JoJo is more based on how people use their abilities rather than how powerful they are, and how it doesn't matter. That's valid, and I know it doesn't matter all in all, but I think it would be fun to talk about.

Now that that's out of the way, I have a few more things to say. Generally when going into powerscaling, it is important to understand a few concepts. Now, I'm not going to dump a bunch of knowlege onto you, but it is important to getting a quick idea of a few concepts out of the way. More in depth ideas will be discussed individually in certain sections, and I'll clarify many things later.


 * Destructive Capacity - The ammount of damage a character can produce
 * Attack Potency - The Destructive Capacity that an attack can be equivalent too. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters who can withstand such forces.
 * Speed - The distance someone, or something can travel over a given time. This is split up into 5 types. Attack Speed (how fast something can attack), Combat Speed (how fast something can move in combat), Reaction Speed (how fast something can react to something), Travel Speed (how fast something can move/travel), and Flight Speed (how fast something can fly if it is able too)
 * Durability - The amount of force something is able to withstand
 * Dimensionality - The state of having any number of dimensions.

There are also a few important side concepts/notes:


 * A character's destructive capacity can be lower or equal to their attack potency, but it can not be higher.
 * Similarly, a character's attack potency can be lower or equal to their durability, but it can not be higher (this is due to Newton's Third Law).
 * All stats (attack potency, speed, durability) all have levels that exceed standard numbers
 * There are things beyond infinity.
 * Powerscaling is stupid, since the community accepts some laws like Newton's Third Law, but excludes things like the principle of Conservation of Energy.

Finally, just to give a basic rundown, I'll be going over my top 10 for JoJo Stands/Abilities in JoJo. This includes all of the Manga, Light Novels, and Games.

#10 - D4C Love Train



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - At least Small City level (just the spine created a massive storm over Kansas)
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (reacted to both Johnny's Bullets and Diego's attacks), Passive (Love Train is a passive barrier around Valentine)
 * Durability - Small City level (Should be relative to Attack Potency), Multiversal + (Love Train is a construct that contains Infinite Worlds/Dimensions

#9 - Ball Breaker



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - Multiversal+ (Broke through Love Train)
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (blitzed Valentine), Infinite-Inaccessible (Should be comparable to Act4 which can passively move in The World's timestop)
 * Durability - Multiversal+ (Should be relative to Attack Potency)

#8 - Tusk



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - Multiversal+ (Broke through Love Train)
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (blitzed Valentine and D4C, hit The World), Infinite-Inaccessible (Can passively move in The World's timestop)
 * Durability - Multiversal+ (Should be relative to Attack Potency)

#7 - Gold Experience Requiem



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - Multiversal+ (Stated to be beyond any Stand by any measuring rod like Stand Stats, GER also reverts deaths infinitely across numerous spacetime continuums)
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (should be Superior to Gold Experience, Blitzed King Crimson), Infinite-Immeasurable (Can move in Erased Time)
 * Durability - Multiversal+ (Should be relative to Attack Potency)

#6 - Gold Experience Requiem (JORGE JOESTAR)



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - Multiversal+ (should be relative to cannon self)
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (should be relative to cannon self), Infinite-Immeasurable (should be relative to cannon self)
 * Durability - Multiversal+ (Should be relative to Attack Potency)

#5 - The World Over Heaven



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - Multi Solar System Level (Created the Over Heaven Area, a Dimension with multiple stars in it), Multiversal+ (Negated both the Infinite Spin, Return to Zero, and the Infinite Death Loop), Durability Negation via Existence Erasure, should be far higher with the Holy Corpse and Souls
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (Superior to his canon self, Comparable to Gold Eperience Requiem and Star Platinum, Superior to Stone Free and D4C), At least Infinite, possibly up to Immeasurable (Reacted to and negtated Gold Experience Requiem's Return to Zero)
 * Durability - Multi Solar System Level to Multiversal+ (Should be relative to Attack Potency)

The World Over Heaven breaks through the bottom of the top 5, and may I say that this Stand is a breath of fresh air for scaling. Simply because we definitely know what it's ability is, but that doesn't mean there isn't a little bit of inconsistency and wiggle room.

The World Over Heaven's primary ability is to overwrite reality. This lets Dio erase the existence of anything he wants, steal/absorb souls and use them as slaves, heal himself, resurrect the dead and completely negate almost any defense that exists in the main series. The only downside to this power is that he has to touch whatever he wants to overwrite. This downside IS crippling, but there is some inconsistency with it. You see, Dio does things in the game which he really shouldn't be able to do since he can't touch them. One main example is that he created the over heaven their, so unless he punched it into existence, there has to be some other explanation for it. The explanation I follow is that The World Over Heaven doesn't technically need to punch something. As long as he can react to something, and has his hands functioning, he can overwrite it.

#4 - Ultimate Lifeform (JORGE JOESTAR)



 * Tier - 2-A
 * Attack Potency - multi-City Block to Island Level (should be relative to cannon self), Large Mountain to Country+ Level (Withstood an impact which flipped Britain), Universe level (can withstand the end of the Universe), Multiversal+ (dought on par with Dio)
 * Speed - FTL (should be relative to cannon self) MFTL+ (activated Killer Queen's bombs Sextillions of times), at least Infinite, up to Inaccessible-Immeasurable (fought on par with Dio)
 * Durability - Multiversal+ (Should be relative to Attack Potency), Type 1-3 Immortality

#3 - Beyond/Trinity



 * Tier - At least 2-A
 * Attack Potency - Undefined
 * Speed - Passive
 * Durability - Undefined, type 8 Immortality

#2 - Wonder of U



 * Tier - Undefined
 * Attack Potency - Undefined (varies based on attack)
 * Speed - MFTL-MFTL+ (faster than Soft & Wet) Passive (the Flow of Calamity is passively active for Wonder of U)
 * Durability - Undefined (Should be relative to Attack Potency), type 8 Immortality

#1 - Soft & Wet: Go Beyond



 * Tier - 1-A
 * Attack Potency - Outerversal (by being beyond Logic, Go Beyond has bubbles which chould be beyond logical things like dimensions and even concepts)
 * Speed - Irrelevant (by nature of being Outerversal Projecticles, they should be above concepts such as distance, space, and time, and would thus be Irrelevant speed)
 * Durability - Outerversal (the bubbles should have a durability relative to their Attack Potency)

=Blog 2, Ultimate Stands=

In my personnal opinion, the JoJo light novels are some of the most amazing works of writing and are truly deserving of being apart of the catalogue of JoJo content. While I don't think everyone needs to read them to get more value out of the series, I certainly do. There is one JoJo light novel though that sticks out like a sore thumb, Jorge Joestar

Jorge Joestar has been the poster child of outlandish JoJo work. It goes above and beyond with it's story, incoprating so many different concepts and ideas that it makes for a truly unique experience. Despite the criticism, I believe the novel is utterly amazing when it comes to being a fun and engaging story. Maybe one day I'll fully analyze the novel, but for now I want to focus on a specific gripe I had with the novel, the Ultimate series of Stands

Throughout the novel, we see Kars go and interact with numerous Stand users. Using his Ultimate Life Form abilities he is able to not only copy these Stands, but to make them better, turning them into their Ultimate forms. We see 7 of these ultimate Stands in the novel. In chronological order, U-Boat Ultimate (which I will be calling Das Boot Ultimate as I like that name more), Whitesnake Ultimate, Dune Ultimate, The World Ultimate, C-Moon Ultimate Requiem, D4C Ultimate, and Made in Heaven Ultimate Requiem.

Unlike what most people would have you think, my problem itself isn't these Stands existing, or the fact that they are too powerful. It's quite the opposite actually. My problem actually is the lack of use of these Stands throughout the novel. I've always prided the story on creating extremely fun and inventive Stands. Videodrome, Das Boot, The Passion and even Singing in the Rain have clear and defined Stand abilities that make them extremely interesting. Sadly for every interesting Stand, we get two poorly explained Stands or abilities that never get elaborated on or used beyond a single moment. These would be your Blob, Evil Dead, Iron Ladies, Twister, and Right Stuff. The latter catagorey is also where we find our Ultimate Stands

I've always been annoyed that the author took so much time to introduce a concept for new and improved Stands, yet he never elaborates on what any of these Stands can do beyond "They are the original but better". I always wished that these Stands would have some kind of ability to set them aside from their standard counterpart. So, that is what I'm here to discuss today. What my ideas would be for what powers these ultimat Stands would have.

Das Boot Ultimate
Das Boot was one of the few great reimagined Stands in my opinion, up the Videodrome when it comes to creativity in my opinion. Having Aerosmith shift from being an ariel fight to a U-Boat sub is a really cool change in my opinion, along with all its ne powers that come from it becoming a colony Stand. As well, i've always thought that the ship design for Das Boot Ultimate was one of the better Ultimate Stand designs. It takes the concept of a U-Boat and shifts it into a modern/futuristic Submarine. It reminds me a lot of the Nautalis from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, which I love.

Dune Ultimate
Dune is an interesting case as unlike the other Stands in the Ultimate series, it isn't a Stand itself technically. Dune is what is known as a Bound, a Stand-like ability that allows the user to basically become a specific substance. The ability emerges in people who have fully come to terms with the enviornment they live, basically turning their body into whatever their enviornment is made of. A good comparrison would be Logia Devil Fruits from One Piece, particulalry the Suna Suna no Mi (the Sand Sand Fruit) which allows the user to create, control, and become Sand similar to Dune.

The World Ultimate
The World Ultimate is probably our first case of an insanely powerful Stand becoming more powerful. Especially when you consider that Kars didn't copy The World Ultimate off of The World that we know. Dio's The World in Jorge Joestar is in it's completed form, able to stop time for almost an hour! So, what ability could we give to the World that would improve it? I don't think giving it more length to it's time stop is what we should do, since at an hour, any more time becomes virtually redundant. So, let me introduce a new concept for it, the "All-Stop"

The All-Stop:
In his confrontation with Dio, Kars realizes the limited scope of Dio's power. Dio could never see the full truth of his Stand, that he could never dominate the will of the universe through controlling time, but dominating the will of all things. With this revalation, he would gain the powers of The All-Stop.

Where Time Stop was a mastery of time, the All-Stop is the mastery of pace and stillness itself. By activating it, all things come to standstill. This includes all physical matter, non-physical particles, and even metaphysical concepts. This can include:


 * All physical matter freezing in place. Birds would remain frozen in air, cars moving down a busy street would freeze in their tracks, and even the planets and stars all throughout the Universe would halt their movement.
 * Electrical signals in the brains of living beings would halt in place. All living creatures effected wouldn't even know that all things were stopped as their brains wouldn't be able to process that it is stopped.
 * Chemical functions ceasing. Creatures wouldn't need to eat, sleep, or even breathe in this stasis as their body would be using all the
 * All non-physical particles (light & photons, energy, gravitons) freeze. If Kars went to punch something,the energy would build up in the position where his fist impacted until the All-Stop is released. Gravity also has no effect on objects in the All-Stop.
 * Metaphysical concepts like the barrier between universes freeze in place. It is similar to pulling a paper taut to cut into it. When the paper is loose, its somewhat maleable and can be torn easily. When the paper is pulled tight though, it can be ripped or pierced much easier. Such is the abilty of The World Ultimate as when the All-Stop is active, the barriers between Universes are tight and ridgid, and thus they can be pierced

The only major limitation would be the time constraint on how long this could be active for. I doubt Kars would be able to use it for an infinite amount of time, but I think giving him at least an hour like standard The World is a good minimum. He'd most likely also be able to freeze and unfreeze single targets. Overall, I feel this Stand would be a true successor to The World.

C-Moon Ultimate Requiem
C-Moon Ultimate Requiem (commonly refered to as CUR) is one of two Stands that is not only an Ultimate version, but also a Requiem Stand. This is due to the fact that in Jorge Joestar, Requiem Stands are Stands that form Wounds from being pierced by a Stand arrow. How is it that a Stand can experience the trauma necessary to form a Wound? Who knows, but we're gonna look past that for now. The point is, because it's both a Requiem Stand and an Ultimate Stand, an ability befitting CUR would most likely need to be something that is not only more powerful than standard C-Moon, but also befitting of being called a Requiem Stand. With that out of the way, let me introduce you to the ability

Fundamental Force Manipulation:
There are four fundamental interactions in the universe, indivisble and absolute in the universe. Gravitational interactions, Electromagnetic interactions, Weak interactions, and Strong interactions. These 4 fundamental forces encompass every event in our universe from keeping our feet on the ground to holding the planets in orbit and holding each of our molecules together. With this ability though, CUR can shift the scales of these forces and truly control every action to his liking. This would allow him to
 * Change the direction of gravitational forces. This is similar to normal C-Moon where Pucci changed the direction of gravity to be away from him, CUR can do this with any specific point in space or to any specific object (think Shinra Tensei from Naruto)
 * Change the direction of electromagnetic forces. This would allow CUR to manipualte things such as the shape of objects and friction.
 * Change the direction of weak forces. This would allow CUR to control the decay of atoms, giving CUR the power of the sun and fission at his finger tips.
 * Change the direction of strong forces. This would allow CUR to control the force that binds quarks into protons and neutrons. If Kars used this on anyone, they wouldn't be annihilated, nor would they be erased, they would quite literally be unmade.

Now despite the fact we are trying to make overpowered abilities, we'd definitely need some kind of limiter on this. Firstly, CUR would not be able to change more than one fundamental force at a time. Secondly, the changing of directions would be a conciouss effort on the part of Kars and would be physically taxing to maintain over time. Finally, all fundamental forces would return to their original state once complete. For eample, if CUR manipulated the electromagnetic forces of brick to turn it into a sphere, it would return to its normal brick shape once the effect is release. This is the same on things like living beings. If he chose to unmake someone, their body would reform once the effect is released (although they would still most likely be dead). Overall, I'm not too sure of these downsides, but I think these would balance it out.

Ultimate D4C
D4C in the novels is one of the best adaptaions of a preexiting Stand. Its abilities get expanded upon, new ones are added, everything i'd want in an adaptation of a Stand. So its a shame that for all the attention D4C got, Ultimate D4C (I have no clue why it isn't written as D4C Ultimate but whatever) gets little to no attention. The extent of its time in the story is just Kars summoning it to do nothing. Sure, it can be argued that Kars' belly button pocket dimension BS could be attributed to Ultimate D4C, I personally don't buy into that. So, what ability would be a deserved expansion to D4C's original ability to travel between worlds. Why don't we go a step up the cosmic ladder from Universes to Dimensions.

Made in Heaven Ultimate Requiem
Made in Heaven (commonly shortened to MIHUR) is one of the most powerful Stands we've ever seen. It's at least top 10 in the main series, and while it doesn't maintain that position when it comes to the novels, I still consider it an extremely powerful Stand. So it's a shame to to me the MIHUR doesn't show off how powerful it could be similar to all other Ultimate Stands. The most we see it do in terms of it being superior is its increase time acceleration, and its possible ability to speed up time for specifc things (which may I say is pretty powerful). Still, I think MIHUR truly desrves something ludicrously powerful, beyond anything that we've seen from a Stand, and what better ability to give him than speed beyond anything we've ever seen in JoJo.