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Sem tradução
Programa de TV
Publicado em 25 de Maio de 1981

Tezuka: Thank you for your hard work and congratulations.

Tezuka: This is incredibly interesting. It's something you don't see nowadays... I love it.

Tezuka: There just aren't many manga artists from the Tohoku region.

Araki: Shotaro Ishimori-sensei....

Tezuka: I mean, that's about it though, right?

Araki: From Miyagi prefecture.

Tezuka: So, as his successor...

Araki: I'll do my best.

Tezuka: Please do.

Tezuka: And show me one more of your works. Just one more, please.


手塚「これ凄く面白いんだ これはね、ちょっと近代にない 僕は大好きだ」



手塚「まぁ ああいう程度のもんでね」


手塚「だから ちょっと…その後継ぐ人としてさ」




Tradução incompleta
Publicado em Maio de 1986

——Please, ask me anything

Erika: You look the same as the photo ♡. As soon as I entered the store, I knew it was you.

Araki: Oh, is that so? (laughs)

——But the pictures in the comics are in black and white?

Araki: Those are black and white. Super comics are in color.

Erika: Date of birth...?

Araki: June 7, 1960. Gemini. Type B.

Erika: How did you become a manga artist?

Araki: Around the winter of 1980, I brought a manuscript (Poker Under Arms) to Jump. It was chosen as a runner-up for the Tezuka Award.

——Oh, the entry gathered in this special edition. I'm sorry to say that I've heard the name, but haven't read it.

Araki: It's a Western story. It's pretty different...

Fumaren: Your work feels a lot different now.

Araki: I agree. It was like a gunman fighting with a poker game... it was 31 pages. That was my debut. After that, I started Cool Shock B.T. with 3 short stories.

——You can't really read those, now.

Araki: Oh, my old short stories. I want to sort of leave those in darkness. (laughs)

Everyone: Huh?!

Erika: Before that, did you do entries or doujinshi?

Araki: When I was in high school, I sent in a lot of entries.

Fumaren: What kind of magazine?

Araki: Jump, of course. It was my favorite...

——What kind of stuff was in Shonen Jump at the time?

Araki: ... Doberman Deka, and... I forget. (laughs) In the other magazine, there was Ai to Makoto.

Erika: Are there any people who've particularly influenced you?

Araki: Ikki Kajiwara's works.

Everyone: Oh? (laughing)

Araki: Huh? (laughs)

Fumaren: Does Ikki Kajiwara draw manga?

——He's the original author of Ai to Makoto.

Fumaren: Oh, is that so?

Komiyama: Huh?!

Araki: Huh? Maybe it's a generational thing?! It's still interesting to read!

Komiyama: Do you think of B.T.'s tricks yourself?

Araki: I adapted some of them, while others I thought of myself.

——Now, let's talk about Baoh. One of the reasons it was so popular with Fanroad readers is that, though it was short, it was a completed and fleshed out series- the ideal Jump piece...

Araki: That was the last thing I was thinking about. I couldn't have guessed that it would end up like this...

——It's nice to understand the meaning of 'the Visitor' in the end. At first, I wondered why the 'visitors' were running away...

Araki: I thought so too. (laughs)

Erika: Is there going to be a sequel?

Araki: I do want to make one.

Fumaren: I want to see a 17 year old Sumire ♡ What sort of image do you think she would have?

Araki: I agree, she'd be someone feminine but not very active.

Erika: Is Sumire modeled off of someone?

Araki: Honestly, I didn't base her off of anyone.

Fumaren: The ideal type...

——Come to think of it, the Sumire from the 2nd page of the comic has changed a lot.

Araki: Her image is going to change a lot. I think of it as training.

Fumaren: Was there anyone who influenced the painting?

Araki: Sanpei Shirato, foremostly.

——Also in Baoh, the duo who threw the bomb- if you use a shuriken instead of a bomb, it's a ninja thing.

Araki: That's right. (laughs) I really liked Sasuke.

Erika: Why are Sumire-chan's eyebrows so thick?

Araki: Are they too thick? (laughs)

Fumaren: It's cute when you get used to it, but when you see it for the first time...

Erika: At first I thought they were a decoration.

Araki: I like the make up of the 60s, so I tried it out a bit. (laughs) I went to a fashion design school.

Fumaren: I like the look of the eyes...

Araki: Yes, the eyes turned out well. The lips should be thicker, but I'm not drawing it anymore.

——Though that granny's eyes... (laughs)

Komiyama: Why did you make Baoh a parasite?

Fumaren: I was wondering that too! It's pretty gross! (laughs)

Araki: Well, it was a little unpopular.

——But in horror movies, that's what military secrets often are.

Araki: I was thinking of a way it could happen in reality, to give someone a transformation and a different level of power. Something to make you believe that he could transform.

Erika: It reminded me of Cyborg 009 when I read it ♡

——It's a girl's interest. The lonely heroes that have their own secret power and are pursued by an organization- like 009, Wolf Guy, Chimera- all have a common tragic charm. Oh yeah, here's a question from a reader:

[Translated by Betsybugaboo]

“When Baoh is locked up, wouldn’t he fall asleep just by being submerged in water, without the need of nepenthes liquid?”

Araki: My assistant gave me some advice there (laughs) – while they’re adding water, Baoh melts the door and escapes!

Everyone: Ah, I see!

Araki: Kasuminome thought up things that far!

——He wasn’t stupid.

Fumaren: Did you like biology? Like, was it one of your best subjects or…?

Araki: Perhaps (laughs)

Erika: Then what about English? Since you seem to use a lot of English words…

Araki: English… (laughs) I wasn’t good at it, so I’m using difficult terms on purpose.

Fumaren: The manga’s got expressions like “___ phenomenon”, so it’s good for exams and the like (laughs).

Araki: You’ll fail if you write that!

Erika: What was your childhood like? Did you want to become a manga artist?

Araki: Not particularly. I played a lot outside and followed around the big guys.

——Speaking of which, we also received a postcard from someone who went to your school in Miyagi.

Araki: Ah yes, I come from Sendai, Miyagi prefecture.

——You seem to be resistant to cold.

Araki: I am indeed. I always go back to Sendai in summer.

Erika: When did you decide to become a manga artist?

Araki: After I entered design school. I graduated high school, entered design school and had no job, but was proud I was studying in such a great place, and then I decided to become a manga artist and submitted by manuscripts.

Erika: You really worked hard.

Araki: More like… I begged in tears (laughs). Like, “please…accept this…”.

Everyone: (laughs)

Fumaren: Were the editors kind?

Araki: They were scary! (laughs)

Komiyama: You know, I always wondered why such a refined person like you decided to become a manga artist (laughs).


Komiyama: Jump’s New Year’s edition covers tend to feature manga artists quite a lot, and he really caught my eye…

——Yes, yes, true, he seems to receive at least 2 or 3 big boxes of chocolate from fans on Valentine’s Day.

Everyone: Wow…impressive!

Araki: Thank you very much.

Komiyama: So not for the characters, but for the artist himself? That’s great!

Fumaren: What do you do with all that chocolate?

Araki: I eat it all. I also reply sometimes!

——Oh right, a postcard actually mentioned receving a fast reply from you after sending New Year’s cards to several manga artists and musicians.

Araki: (laughs) I am diligent!

——Fans always pay attention to details.

Araki: I think I reply to one or two letters per week.

——Do you have an official fanclub?

Araki: I do… do I?

Everyone: Huuuuh?

Araki: I think I agreed to it at some point, but…

Fumaren: Has there been talk about a Baoh animation?

——Hmm, yes, I’ve heard about the possibility of a Baoh OVA, but there is nothing certain yet.

Araki: There was some talk about an image album…

——There was some talk about an image album, but it was called off.

Araki: What a pity.

Erika: Would you like to see an anime based on your manga?

Araki: … I would. I can’t say it would make me particularly happy, but I would.

——The voice actors seem to be the most difficult aspect (laughs).

Fumaren: The live action adaptation would obviously be a splatter movie…

Araki: It would be all *pop*pop*pop* (laughs)

Fumaren: That sounds gross (laughs)

Komiyama: Then you should play the main character!

Everyone: Huh, he’d fit!

Araki: No way (laughs)

——Oh, so you don’t like things like making the “barubaru” pose.

Fumaren: You can leave the poses to JAC [Japan Action Club] or stuntmen and only play as Ikuro.

Erika: This kind of thing seems to be popular abroad.

——Baoh became “The Visitor from the Underworld” in Taiwan.

Erika: No, not there, a bigger country, like the US…

Araki: I wish the words stayed the same.

Fumaren: They were told they can’t use those English words (laughs)

——Sounds scary. It’s like that strange Japanese often used in American movies.

Araki: Baoh and B.T. are made up words too. I was wondering what to name them… so I just made my choices depending on the sound.

——So it’s not an abbreviation for anything?

Araki: Nothing of the sort. I thought the “T” sounded nice, and when I started thinking about the first letter, AT, BT, I just settled on “bee-tee”.

——Well now, this conversation has reached its end. Heave-ho, let’s all cheer for a new serialisation in Jump as soon as possible!

Everyone: Good luuuuck♡

[Translated by Dijeh][1]


エ「写真と同じ顔の人なんですね♡ お店に入ってきた時、すぐわかりました」






























荒「えっ!? そんな世代なの〜っ!? 今、読んでもあれはおもしろい!」










ふ「17歳のスミレちゃんが見たいで〜す♡ どういうイメージですか?」















荒「60年代のメーキャップみたいのが好きなので、あのへんをちょこっとやってみた。(笑)ファッション・デザインの学校に 行っていたことがあるので」





ふ「あたしも聞きたかった! 気持ち悪〜いの!(笑)」





——女の子の感想ですねえ。たしかに、自分のからだに秘密の力があって組織に追われる孤独なヒーローっていうのは、『009』、『ウルフガイ』、『キマイラ』なんかも、みんな共通の悲劇的な魅力を持ってますからね。そうそう、ここで読者の質問をちょっと……。“バオー”をとじこめた時に、ネペンテス液なんて入れずに水を入れてしまえば、バオーは眠ってしまったんじゃないんですか? というんですが……。







エ「じゃあ英語も? あれだけいろんなことばが出てくるから……」























小「キャラクターじゃなくて先生あてに? それはすごい!」






































Taro-kun Volume 5.jpg
Entrevista faltando
Publicado em 10 de Agosto de 1988


Famicom Jump Hero Retsuden's Strategy Guide.jpg
Publicado em Abril de 1989

King Komaru: Well, it's King Komaru again. Making an appearance next is Hirohiko Araki-sensei, a connoisseur of little-known games.

Araki: When you say that, I don't mean games for the Famicon.

King Komaru: Oh, you meant stuff like playing cards and boards games!?

Araki: Yes!! I like games that use cards, like poker for example. I also love games like Backgammon and Monopoly!

King Komaru: Hardly an elegant pastime, I think. What kind of things fascinate you about card games!?

Araki: Certainly, it's the thought of having another human as your opponent. Rather than being interested in the game itself, waging war against the opponent and the strategy is what's interesting. Even if it's the same game, the difference in opponent can cause an entirely new set of developments within the game.

King Komaru: Uh-huh. Of course it doesn't matter who you play with on a Famicom because the opponent is always a computer.

Araki: Sorry, but I've hardly played with the Famicom. But, there seems to be a game where you can fight with your friends. If there's a game where you can play against other people, I'd be interested!!

King Komaru: But Araki Sensei, I thought you were someone who was rather opposed to the Famicom...

Araki: Hahahaha!! That's not the case at all. My motto is "Don't think about your worries. Live your life freely!!" So, if I like the Famicom, I should play it!! If I think it's a waste of time, I don't have to play it!!

King Komaru: I see. Well then, to wrap this up, a few words for everyone reading this!!

Araki: It's already been 2 years since JoJo has begun serialization. Without forgetting what it was like to be a newcomer mangaka, I'll press on!!
[Translated by Eas]

コ はい。またまたコマル大王です。つぎに登場の荒木飛呂彦先生は、知る人ぞ知るゲーム通。

荒 と言っても、ファミコンじゃないけどね。

コ トランプとかボードゲームですか!?

荒 そう!! カードを使ったゲーム、たとえばポーカーなんか好きだね。それにバックギャモンやモノポリーも大好きだよ!!

コ なかなかしぶい趣味だと思います。カードゲームはどんなところが魅力なんですか!?

荒 それはもう、相手が人間であるというところだね。ゲームそのものの面白さよりも、対戦する相手との駆け引きが面白いんだ。同じゲームでも相手によって全然ちがうゲーム展開になるしね。

コ …ふむふむ。たしかにファミコンでは誰がやっても相手はコンピュータですからね。

荒 あいにくボクはファミコンって、ほとんどやったことがないんだ。でも友だちどうしで戦うゲームなんかもあるらしいね。対人間で、できるゲームならば、ボクも興味はあるよ!!

コ 荒木先生は、わりとファミコン反対!!の人かと思ってましたけど…。

荒 ハハハハッ!!そんなことはないよ。ボクのモットーは「クヨクヨ考えない。自由に生きよう!!」だからね。ファミコンだって自分が好きなら、やればいい!!時間の無駄だと思えば、やめればいいのさ!!

コ そうですね。それじゃ最後にジャンプ読者の皆さんに何か、ひと言!!

荒 『ジョジョ』の連載が始まって、はや2年。だけど新人のときの気持ちを忘れずにがんばりますっ!!

Baoh Pamphlet-1.png
Entrevista faltando
Publicado em 1989



I know nothing about China

Araki: This is kind of embarrassing, but the only book of yours I have read is Bokkou. But, you know, it still made me feel we have a few things in common. There tends to be some sort of disconnect between the beginning and the ending when writers simply write guided by their feelings, but everything about your writing advances logically. I’m thinking we’re alike here.

Sakemi: I don’t actually follow a logical thread, but since I write about various historical events, it’s only natural for my writings to move along in a logical manner. Truth be told, I don’t actually have an elaborate plan.

Araki: So you have been researching China for a while?

Sakemi: Well, no, I actually don’t know anything about China. I’m making it up as I’m writing, so it’s a little embarrassing.

Araki: I see. There are a lot of manga artists who do this too, you know. A lot of lies written about kenpou, for example.

Sakemi: But it’s still a little scary to write something you have no idea about. If someone in the know or someone who’s worked in China told me my stuff is wrong, I’d be done for. It hasn’t happened so far, but I feel like it might happen in the future.

Araki: Although you could say that it is fictional history in a way.

Sakemi: Everything I write is made up by me. Still, I don’t invent weapons and don’t randomly destroy existing countries either. I have my limits.

Araki: Still, when historical figures do show up, you already know when they’re going to die. You need to have them die as they should.

Sakemi: It’s all right, Bokkou barely features historical figures.

Araki: Oh, I see. As soon as I saw kanji I totally thought they were real people.

Sakemi: Basically it’s like this: imagine someone makes a movie, finds a wasteland and places their sets there. That’s what it’s like. The fortress is also something I made up myself.

Araki: I have seen it serialised in Big Comic. Do you think the art style suits the story?

Sakemi: It’s more like, I had no idea what the clothing of the time was like, so now that I’ve seen it, I felt like I learnt something new.

Araki: Interesting (laughs)

Sakemi: We do know what kind of clothes nobles used to wear, since we have illustrations, but we have no idea what common people wore or what they ate. There are no castle walls left either, so I stumbled onto a lot of problems.

Araki: Not even ancient ruins?

Sakemi: There are a lot, but it’s kind of difficult to find something from 2500 years ago. Those in Egypt or Greece were preserved because they were built from stone, but in China’s case, they were easily destroyed because they were apparently made of hardened clay. This is why you can say my novel lies in this matter.

Araki: I didn’t think for a moment it was a lie.

Sakemi: That’s why I’d really, really hate for a China expert to read it. I also write science fiction, so it’s not like I only focus on China.

Betraying reader expectations in an interesting way

Sakemi: I noticed Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure features combat sport. Do you practice it?

Araki: I never have. I have done some kendou though.

Sakemi: Have you seen it live perhaps?

Araki: I haven’t, but I do watch it on TV. I don’t really feel like drawing combat sport. I believe we are similar in this respect — tactics and strategy are more interesting. That’s why, to be completely honest, I hate pro wrestling and anything of the sort.

Sakemi: Pro wrestling actually has a very similar concept: you have to draw out enough of your opponent’s strength and then finish them off. Basically, if an unknown fighter attacks you, you can’t defeat them unless you bring out their special technique. You should defeat a wrestler after you have witnessed their strength several times. I think it’s the same in manga. To put it clearly, it’s better to kill a dangerous guy immediately, but once you have witnessed how threatening the enemy is, you turn the tables in one move. This is a must.

Araki: One-shot kills definitely wouldn’t fit among Jump’s traditional long battles (laughs)

Sakemi: This would have been a problem for UWF during Maeda Akira’s time. You can actually defeat a weak guy in about one minute. But defeating him after he has displayed his technique is much better. Unfortunately, this kind of thing is called match fixing nowadays.

Araki: There’s a 50-50 in this case.

Sakemi: That’s exactly it. A while ago, during a boxing match between Trevor Berbick and UWF international Takada Nobuhiko, instead of letting Berbick show off his crazy punches and then defeat him, Takada just started kicking him all of a sudden and Berbick ran away.

Araki: That’s also a fighting style.

Sakemi: Berbick’s punch is over 300 kgs heavy, so receiving one of those would have been the end. He kept kicking before that. It’s correct in fighting, but wrong in pro wrestling. It was important to show how dangerous Berbick was, stagger on his feet, then turn the tables. That’s why “Cement” are mostly boring.

Araki: What are “Cement”?

Sakemi: Games played in earnest. I’d say it’s not that good when it comes to pro wrestling and I think we can say the same thing about manga. Even in Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure losing a battle to win the war happens quite often. There are all kinds of enemies, like the guy who can only move through mirrors or the stand that attacks in dreams, so it’s fun to see every week how they’re going to be defeated.

Araki: Before I start drawing, I usually have a broad idea about the direction of the fight, but I may change my mind halfway through.

Sakemi: I can usually tell what’s going to happen in a manga, but not in your case, like how an enemy is going to be defeated and so on.

Araki: Some people hate that.

Sakemi: No, it’s great. You betray the readers’ imagination and expectations, and in an interesting way on top of that.

Araki: That is why “Bokkou” impressed me.

Sakemi: That’s because my characters get defeated after their strength is revealed.

Excitement, every single week

Araki: I said earlier that we have something in common. That something is “psychological battles”. It’s interesting to see this in all your novels. We’re kind of similar here.

Sakemi: I know you since you received the Tezuka Prize for Poker Under Arms; it really showed off your talents and style. Those poker tricks made me think you like gambling. Am I right?

Araki: Yes, well, I usually do it. I win most of the time. I’m the kind of man who stops while he’s still winning.

Sakemi: Did you also gamble abroad?

Araki: I did. There was this Grand Casino in Egypt, so I went there alone.

Sakemi: How did it go?

Araki: I won. I got all my souvenir money back through gambling.

Sakemi: Was it card games?

Araki: Exactly. I had to move pretty fast.

Sakemi: As I thought, you’d rather have a human for a partner than a machine, even in gambling.

Araki: That’s right. Even when it comes to roulette, a professional dealer, will definitely have the skill to enter your favoured number. When your partner is a pro, it feels like they can see behind your every move, several moves ahead. It’s a great psychological battle.

Sakemi: And yet you can’t really win.

Araki: You can’t stop as long as it’s profitable. You keep thinking you’re going to play just a bit more. I, for one, stop playing after I win, since the fun of gambling are tactics anyway. I think these psychological battles are also one of the fun points of my manga.

Sakemi: This is why I find your fights between strong characters really interesting. It’s rather impossible for an amateur to capture those psychological battles in games like shougi or go, even when people wave their fans or make a good move. On the other hand, the fights between powerful people in sumou, for example, are easy to follow. That is why it’s popular.

Araki: What about pro wrestling?

Sakemi: Well, organisations have their own rules and plans, so there won’t be matches between the strongest people, but the psychological part is insane.

Araki: Pro wrestling is quite profound, huh.

Sakemi: It’s too profound, really, I actually feel sorry for the people who talk about match fixing or clean matches. I think, for example, there are “fixed” manga and “clean” manga too. Same with novels.

Araki: I agree.

Sakemi: Attacking after you draw out your opponent’s power to the utmost, since you do have to show it off, like in your manga: you have the enemy display their power, like in pro wrestling, meaning more suspense for the readers, then have them punctually defeated. You aren’t afraid of showing all your ideas.

Araki: There are also times when I test myself. I don’t know how to defeat the enemy, so I momentarily make them strong and drive the characters into a corner.

Sakemi: I don’t do that too often, since I end up not knowing how to save my characters. I just can’t have them fight in situations that end up too disadvantageous. In that respect, you have the enemies defeated right on time. It’s a good thing. You don’t mind showing your ideas one after another. Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure has had dozens of defeated enemies, but it was great every single time.

Araki: I had to come up with about thirty different stands, since you need to make every new weekly chapter fun and exciting. The story will obviously have its ups and downs, but it will stop being enjoyable if it keeps having downs, even if they’re necessary for the story itself.

Sakemi: This is why the way you construct your ideas is great; “hamon” is one of them.

Araki: I came up with it while thinking about ways to reach your body limits, like to what extent you can transform. There’s been scientific research conducted about this “air” people have, this aura that would show up if scanned with infrared. There are also other strange ideas, like energy coming from the universe and so on. I figured all these have one thing in common and came up with the concept named “ki”, or more like “hamon”, to make it easy to understand for the readers.

Sakemi: Is it the same for stands?

Araki: Let’s say they’re more similar to guardian spirits. Anyway, I named them “stands” because they stand by your (bed)side. I ran out of ideas soon though.

Sakemi: No, no, it’s better than putting them off.

Araki: You wouldn’t be able to survive in Jump if you did that. You must have highlight scenes every week, since everyone only knows about what’s coming next the following week.

Sakemi: It’s also because manga requires a degree of perfection more than novels, right?

Araki: Well yes, I’d say you need constant excitement every single week.

It’s easy to simply focus on the story

Sakemi: The good thing about manga is that developing characters is the most important part. They gradually grow when you give them new skills, new particularities and so on.

Araki: Yes, definitely. If you don’t build up your characters, the manga will not be able to stand by itself either. I rack my brain every week to find something that appeals to the readers. The biggest problem is coming up with stories that highlight the characters’ best parts.

Sakemi: Novels are different. It’s more about writing people than characters.

Araki: Isn’t this the same thing?

Sakemi: It’s not. You basically can’t write over-the-top people when you’re told to write people. I think that’s stupid, but apparently this is how things work in the novel industry. It doesn’t matter anymore when it comes to my generation, and to put it bluntly, I think you’re better at this.

Araki: Is this how it really works? What I can say is that in the manga industry you need more than just a coherent story. It’s easy to simply focus on the story, but it’s difficult to include certain episodes necessary for the characters and make the story coherent too. My head just goes numb after I send my weekly chapters.

Sakemi: When it comes to novels, there are writers who don’t really want to use all their ideas, and the stinggier ones even consider putting them aside for other short stories. I’m the type who writes everything I have in mind, so my mind goes back to zero when I’m done writing. I have to wait for new ideas to pop up. But that’s just the way it is. Basically, it’s natural for professionals to use one idea in one short story in mystery novels; there are a lot of calculated people. I think that if you have three ideas, then you should just use all three. That is why I’m still soft.

Araki: I am the same. Still soft.

Sakemi: I’ve only been around for about two years. I’m still inexperienced.

Araki: I think you’re great. Bokkou was the first novel I truly found interesting in quite a while. I think you have a distinct image of your novels in your head that might be suited for manga or movies too.

Sakemi: I’ve been told they are easy to turn into drawings. But you’d need a budget the like The Silk Road’s for a good movie.

Araki: If Bokkou were turned into a movie, I have a feeling it would rival Seven Samurai.

Sakemi: It never even crossed my mind, but I have been told this quite a lot.

Araki: It feels rather daring and impressive. I wish Kurosawa Akira at the height of his career directed it.

Sakemi: I’m not sure Kurosawa Akira would like to repeat himself. He wouldn’t do the same movie twice and that’s something I love about him. He’s an amazing person, wanting to do new things at his age.

Araki: There really hasn’t been another auteur to follow in his steps in the Japanese film industry.

Sakemi: Movies have been really boring lately. However, Kurosawa Akira not only understands the true meaning of entertainment, but he has also used strange experimental techniques. Doing only experimental things from a young age and being known as a rather strange fellow is not particularly pleasant. (laughs)

Araki: Yes, it’s about doing strange things besides having a grasp of true entertainment.

[Translated by Dijeh][2]


荒木飛呂彦vs.酒見賢一 漫画も小説もプロレス流に描こうじゃないか

「後宮小説」「墨攻」等、新鮮な息吹あふれる作品を次々に発表する酒見氏と、 『週刊少年ジャンプ』誌に「ジョジョの奇妙な冒険」を連載中の荒木氏、 小説界と漫画界の気鋭が (物語) の魅力を熱論。 ふたりに相通ずるココロは・・・・・・常に全力投球!


荒木 恥ずかしながら酒見さんの作品は『墨攻』しか読んでいないんですけど、なにか私と共通点があるような気がするんです。感情のおもむくままに書きつづっていく人というのは、最初と最後であまり関係なかったりしますけど、酒見さんのは理論的に物事が進んでいきますよね。そういうところが似ているかなと。

酒見 論理的に書いてるつもりはないですけど、いわゆる歴史について書くわけだから、資料はちゃんと集めなきゃいけないということで。でも、緻密な計算なんてないんですよ、実は。

荒木 やはり、昔から中国のことを調べていたんですか。

酒見 いや、中国のことは全然知らないんです。つくって書いているから、ちょっと恥ずかしい。

荒木 そうなんですか。でも、漫画にもそういう人がいっぱいいますよ。拳法にしたって、うそばかり書いてますから。

酒見 でも、知らないのに書くというのはちょっと怖いですね。識者の指摘とか、中国に一年なり住んだ会社員とかに、こんなことないよとか言われたら、もうそれでアウトじゃないですか。今のところはないですけど、今後、ありそうですね。

荒木 といっても、ある程度は創作する歴史みたいなものもあるわけだから。

酒見 僕はみんなつくり物ですよ。だけど、全然存在しないような武器を書いたりしてはいけないし、実在の国を勝手に滅ぼしてもよくないし。その程度の制約があるだけですよ。

荒木 でも、歴史上の人物を出すときは、もういつ死んだのかわかっていますよね。そういう場合は、ちゃんとそこで死ななきゃいけない。

酒見 大丈夫、『墨攻』には歴史上の人物はほとんど出てこないから。

荒木 そうなんですか。いや、僕はてっきり漢字が出てくるともう、実際にいた人かと。

酒見 要するに、映画をつくるときに荒れ地を見つけて、そこにセットをつくってという感じなんです。城も自分で考えてつくったものですし。 荒木 ビッグコミックで漫画になっていますけど、あれは酒見さんの想像通りの絵になっているんですか。

酒見 というより、僕はあの頃の服装も全然知らないから、ああ、こんな服着ているのかとかね。

荒木 そうなんですか。(笑)

酒見 貴族の服なんかはわかるんですね、ちゃんと絵が残っているから。でも、庶民がどんな服を着ていたとか、何を食べていたかなんていうのは、全然わからないわけですよ。城にしても、あの頃の城壁は残っていないですから、難しい問題をいっぱいはらんでいるんでしょうね。

荒木 遺跡みたいのはあまりないんですか。

酒見 いっぱいあるんですけど、さすがにニ五〇〇年前となるとちょっと難しい。エジプトとかギリシャは石でつくってあるからちゃんと残っているけど、中国のは叩けば壊れるんですね。あれ、土を固めてつくっているらしいから。だから、そういう意味で、本当はあの小説はうそが書いてあるんですけど。

荒木 でも、全然うそだと思わなかったな。

酒見 だから、どうも中国物のエキスパー卜だと見られてしまいがちで。僕は嫌だ嫌だと言っているんですけど。SFも書いていますし、別に中国物にこだわって書いているわけじゃないんですよ。


酒見 ジャンプで連載している『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険』でも格闘技が出てきますね。荒木さん自身、格闘技はけっこうやっているんですか。

荒木 全然やっていません。剣道をやっていたことはあるんですけど。

酒見 見る方も?

荒木 ないですね。テレビでやっている程度なら見るんですけど。それに、格闘技を書いているという感じはあまりないんです。酒見さんもそうだと思いますが、人間の駆け引きというんですか、その辺がおもしろいわけで。だから、プロレスとか、はっきり言って嫌いですね。

酒見 荒木さんはそうおっしゃるけど、実は、プロレスも同じなんですね。プロレスだと相手の外人なりなんなりの力を、十分引き出してからやっつけなきゃいけないというのがあるわけですよ。ようするに、未知の格闘家が襲来した場合、相手の持ち技を出さないうちに倒してはいけないわけです。向こうの強さを何回か観客およびレスラーに見せつけた後で倒すべきなんですね。漫画でも同じだと思うんです。はっきり言って、危険なやつだったらすぐ殺しちゃえばいいんだけど、やっぱり、相手の凄味を見せつけた後で一発逆転する。これは絶対に必要なことです。

荒木 一撃必殺だったら、ジャンプみたいな長い戦いはできない。(笑)

酒見 その辺で、前田日明がいた頃のUWFなんかは悩むわけですね。弱いやっだったら一分で倒せるんですよ、本当はね。でも、相手のすごい技を見せた後で、さらに倒さなければいけない。それが八百長だと言われている現状があるから悩むわけです。

荒木 それで分裂したりするんですね。

酒見 そういうことですよ。この前でも、ボクシンクのトーレバー・バービツクとUWFインターの高田延彦がやったとき、本当はバービックのパンチの凄さを存分に見せつけた上で倒すべきだったのに、高田はいきなりやっちゃったものだから、バービックは逃げちゃった。

荒木 それも戦いの方法だと。

酒見 バービックのパンチは三〇〇キロ以上のパンチというんだから、そんなもの受けたら終わりですから。その前にガンガンに蹴りまくった。格闘者としては正しいんですね。でも、プロレスでは間違いなんです。バービックの脅威を存分に見せつけてフラフラになってから逆転しなきゃいけないんです。だから、セメントはつまらない場合が多い。

荒木 セメントというと?

酒見 ガチンコとか言いますけど、真剣勝負のことです。プロレスとしてはちよっとまずいと思う。その意味では、漫画もそうだと思うんですよ。『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険』でも、肉を切らせて骨を断つという勝ち方が多いですよね。鏡の中でしか動けないやつとか、夢の中で襲ってくるスタンドとか、いろいろな相手が出てくるわけですけど、どうやって倒すのかと毎週楽しみです。

荒木 書く前に、一応、こんな感じかなというのはあるんですけど、書いていて、こうやって倒したらだめなんじゃないかとか思うんですね。

酒見 ふつう、漫画だとだいたい先が見えるんですけど、荒木さんのは先が見えない。どうやって倒すんだろうと。

荒木 そこが嫌いな人もいるんですけどね。

酒見 いや、これはすごいことですよ。読者の想像とか期待を裏切りつづけて、なおかつおもしろく裏切るというのが正しい姿と思いますね。

荒木 その意味で『墨攻』は感心しました。

酒見 僕も、そいつが凄いやつだというのを見せてから倒さなきゃいけないですから。


荒木 さっき、酒見さんと似ていると言いましたけど、やっぱり心理戦なんですね。これがおもしろい。酒見さんの小説もみんなそうですね。そういうところが、ちょっと似ているなと思ったんです。

酒見 僕は、荒木さんのことは手塚賞をお取りになった『武装ポーカー』から知っているんです。あれに荒木さんの資質というのは出ていますね。ポーカーのトリックとか、やっぱりギャンブル好きでしょう。

荒木 まあ、大抵やります。私は、あまり負けないですよ。勝っているところでやめることができる男なんです。

酒見 外国でもやるんですか。

荒木 やりますね。エシプ卜でもグランカジノというのがあるんですが、一人で乗り込みましたから。

酒見 で、勝負は?

荒木 勝ちましたよ。お土産代は全部ギャンブルで取りましたから。

酒見 力ードゲームですか?

荒木 そうですね。あんまり時間がかかるのはだめですね。

酒見 やっぱり、ギャンブルでも機械相手じゃなくて、人間相手が好きでしよう。

荒木 そうですね。たとえばルーレットにしても、向こうのディーラーはプロフェッショナルだから、ちゃんと自分の好きな番号に入れられる腕があるんです。そういうプロを相手に、裏の裏の裏ぐらいから見ていくんですね。すごい心理戦なんですよ。

酒見 それでも、なかなか勝てない。

荒木 儲かるとやめないから。もうちょっとと思うんですね。でも、僕は勝っているところでやめられます。ギャンブルの楽しさは駆け引きですから。ぼくの漫画の面白さのひとつも心理戦にあると思っています。

酒見 その意味で、僕としては、実力者同士の戦いというのにすごく興味があるんです。でも、将棋とか碁の実力者というのは百手か二百手読みながら扇子をあおいでいるわけで、素人がその心理戦を描くというのはほとんど不可能ですよね。その点、相撲は一場所かけて実力者同士の戦いが見られる。だから人気があるわけですね。

荒木 プロレスはどうなんですか。

酒見 まあ、団体の思惑などがあって、卜ップ同士の戦いはまずないですけど、心理戦という面ではすごい。

荒木 奥深いんだなァ、プロレスは。

酒見 奥深すぎて、ほんと、八百長とか真剣とか言っている段階の人たちが可哀相だと僕は思いますよ。小説も漫画も一緒で、真剣漫画と八百長漫画があると思うんです。

荒木 そうですね。

酒見 相手の力を極限に引き出しておいてからかかっていく。相手の力を見せておかなきゃいけないわけですよ。荒木さんの漫画でもプロレス的に相手の技を読者に見せ切った上で、どうするんだろう、どうするんだろうと思わせておいて、ちゃんときっちり倒してしまうというのがいいんです。アイデアを出し惜しみしていない。

荒木 なにか、自分を試練に陥れるときがあるんですよ。最初はどうやって倒すかわからないまま、とにかく強くしちゃって追い込むんですね。

酒見 僕がそれをやると、助け方がわからなくなっちゃうので、あまりやらないんです。あまりに不利な状況で戦うというのは、やっぱり。その点、荒木さんはちゃんときっちり倒してしまう。そこがいいんですよ。つぎからつぎへとアイデアを出し惜しみしない。『ジョジョの奇妙な冒険』でも、もう十何人も倒してますけどみんなすごかった。

荒木 スタンドだけで三十通り近く考えているんですね。やっぱり、漫画ではその週のお楽しみがきちんとないとだめですから。どうしても話というのは山あり谷ありで流れていくけど、谷のところがずっと続いてしまうような話だと、ストーリーとしては必然性があっても、その週としてはおもしろくないですから。

酒見 その意味で、荒木さんのアイデア構成というのはすごいですね。アイデアのひとつに「波紋」がありますね。

荒木 肉体の限界みたいなものを追求して考えたことがあるんですよ。どこまで変身できるかとか。そしたら、赤外線で写したらオーラが写っていたとかね、科学的に「気」の研究がされているわけです。あと、宇宙からエネルギーが来ているとか、いろいろ不思議なことがある。こういうのは全部、ひとつ共通している何かがあるんじゃないかとか。そんなふうに発想していくんです。それで、読者にわかりやすいように、元気の「気」とか「波紋」だとか名前をつけるんですね。

酒見 「スタンド」もそうですか。

荒木 守護霊じゃちょっとあれだなあとか。それで、とにかく、枕元に立つからス夕ンドと名付けたんですね。でも、そろそろアィデアも使い切ったという。

酒見 いや、アイデアを先延ばしとかやっちゃだめだと思いますね。

荒木 ジャンプでそれをやったら生き残れない。毎週、その週の見せ場をつくらなきゃいけないわけですから。みんな、来週のことしかわからない。

酒見 小説よりも漫画の方の完成度が高いというのもそこに理由があるんでしょうね。

荒木 まあ、毎週毎週、必死であることは間違いありませんけど。


酒見 漫画でいいのは、キャラク夕ーを立てるというのが一番だということですよ。持ち技とか個性をがんがん描いて、キャラク夕ーを立てられる。

荒木 確かに、キャラク夕ーが立たなければ、漫画は成立しません。読者にどうアピールするのか、毎週あたまを悩ますところです。キャラクターの魅力をひきだすために、どんなエピソードを描くのか、それが一番問題なんです。

酒見 小説は違うんですよ。キャラク夕ーを立てるより人間を書けというんです。

荒木 同じことじゃないんですか。

酒見 違うようです。要するに、突拍子もない人間を書いてはいけないんですよ、人間を書けといわれた場合。僕から見れば、ふざけるなということですけど、何か小説界というのはそういう仕組みになっているみたいでね。僕の世代になると、もうそんなのは関係なくて、はっきり言って、荒木さんのほうが上だと思っているんです。

荒木 そうでしょうかね。ただ、言えることは、漫画の世界ではつじつまをあわせただけのストーリーは通用しない。ストーリ—を追うだけなら簡単なんです。でも、キャラク夕ーにとって必要なエピソードを入れて、それでなおかつ、つじつまを合わせるとなると、これは難しい。毎週、作品があがると、頭の中はカラッポですね。

酒見 小説家のなかには、アイデアを出し惜しみして、このアイデアはこの短編にとっておこうとか、そういうケチくさい人がいるんですよ。僕は、今考えていることはすべて書くという方針だから、書き終わるとゼロになっちゃうんです。で、うまく浮かんでくるのをまた待っていなきゃならない。でも、そういうものなんじゃないですかね。要するに、推理小説だと一つの短編に一つのアイデアとか、プロなら当り前かもしれないけど、あざといことを考えたりする人が多いんですね。そんなことをせずに、三つ思いついたら三つ入れればいいじゃないかと、僕は思うんです。だから、まだ固まっていないんです。

荒木 僕も同じですよ。固まっていない。

酒見 僕はまだ二年ちょいですから。ポッと出ですね、まだ。

荒木 すごいですよ。『墨攻』を読んで、久しぶりに小説をおもしろいと思いましたもん。僕、思うんですけど、酒見さんの作品はイメージがはっきりしているから、漫画とか映画に向いているんじゃないですか。

酒見 絵にしやすいとは言われますね。でも『敦煌』ぐらいのお金をかけないと映画にならないでしょう。

荒木 『墨攻』を映画化したら『七人の侍』に匹敵するんじゃないかという感じがしましたけど。

酒見 僕は全然念頭になかったけど、よくそう言われますね。

荒木 かなり太い感じがあるし、ドーンという感じがあるし。元気な頃の黒澤明監督に撮ってもらいたいですね。

酒見 黒澤明監督にしても、同じ手法に絶対安住しませんよね。同じ映画は全然つくらない。そういう点が大好きですね。あのお年で、まだ新しいことをしたいのかというような、凄まじい人間だと思いますね。

荒木 日本の映画であれだけの映画作家というのは、その後、いませんよ。

酒見 もっとも、最近のはつまらない。でも、黒澤監督は、エン夕ーテイメントがわかった上で、ああいうわけのわからん実験的なこともやっているということで許せるわけです。若手のときから実験的なことばかりやって、妙に変な評価があるというのはちょっと気に入らないです。(笑)

荒木 エンターテイメントをしっかり押さえた上で、変なことをやってくれと言いたいですね。

1 VJUMP - 1993-02 Cover.png
Tradução incompleta
Publicado em 21 de Fevereiro de 1993

It feels like an entirely new type of road game!

Manga Artist: Hirohiko Araki
I'm currently supervising the OVA for JoJo, which will be released this summer! It's very good, so I hope you look forward to it!

It was like reading from the manga again...
I didn't read the instruction manual at first, so I was a bit lost on what I had to do. (laughs) Later I learned that there was a spirit level and that I could talk during battles. Once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to form your own strategies. It was very interesting to learn and I felt smart after figuring it out. It seems like the person who made this game was quite familiar with my work. Even though I forgot a few lines myself. (laughs) It's like reading straight from the manga while playing.

Araki-sensei's workplace inside a luxurious apartment located in the residential district of Setagaya City.

When Jotaro and Kakyoin attack with their "Ora Ora Ora!", it was really great seeing their final hit in action. (laughs) The fists on the screen made it feel like I was getting beat up. The graphics for Kakyoin's Emerald Splash were also done beautifully. That one came out effortlessly and it makes me happy whenever I see it being used. I wish the picture could've been a little bigger for that scene. Can't I just blow up the top half of the screen? (laughs)

When I tried talking to the opponents during battle, I thought it was a bit weird that they kept saying "I ignored your words." (laughs)

  • Favorite Stand User: (Ally) Jotaro Kujo "Star Platinum"; (Foe) Pretty much all of them.
  • Favorite Quote: I wrote all the dialogue myself, so I guess all of it. (laughs)
  • Comment: I think Polnareff's appearance was pretty funny. Those who are just starting the game should keep a close eye out for him!
[Translated by Morganstedmanms (JoJo's Bizarre Encyclopedia)]













 (味方)空条承太郎 星の白金 (敵)いちおう全部





JoJo Jump Novel.jpg
Publicado em 1 de Abril de 1993

The Strange World of Ohken & Araki Hirohiko

THE SHOCKING BIZARRE TALK (Ohtsuki Kenji VS Araki Hirohiko)

Two men with unique abilities meet in the faint light of a candle… One is Araki Hirohiko. The other Ohtsuki Kenji. The shocking bizarre talk starts now…

Ohtsuki: The first time I read Jojo I just thought “Woow, this inspires me, I’ve got to do this too, I really have to~”. I’m a musician, I have a band, but I also write books. I figured that if I was going to write for a magazine, I would have to focus, so I shut myself in the house and wrote and wrote for four days, but in the end…! I just couldn’t do it. I play in a band, act in movies, show up on TV. I do all kinds of things, but I feel most at home with my band. It was too hard for me to write a story.

Araki: But, you see, this is precisely that wall you hit at some point. You may think it’s hard, but you will enjoy it so much once you go beyond it.

Ohtsuki: Then I happened to read Jojo at that moment and went “hmmm”.

Araki: You see, I actually take a lot of hints from songs and the like.

Ohtsuki: I was just thinking that Dio’s name, for example, comes from Ronnie James Dio, or that Jojo is the Jojo in “Get Back”.

Araki: That’s right. There are a lot of examples. This horror element of rock music got to me ever since I was a child. I started listening to it in the 70s. Before that, album covers usually featured the artist, but then in the 1970s all kinds of demonic stuff started appearing on the jackets, like in the case of Marc Bolan or King Crimson. The titles were also something along the lines of “Highway to Hell”, and I can’t tell exactly why, but there was something about them that instinctively appealed to me. I guess I bought the albums more for the cover than for the actual music.

Ohtsuki: Same here, I also bought them for the covers.

Araki: You may call it the fascination of evil, or the fascination of the devil. It spoke to me.

Ohtsuki: Which side are you on when you write Jojo? The bad guys, right?

Araki: Ah, well, I generally get attached to everyone when I’m writing, but I also enjoy the bad guys from time to time. I may be considered a freak for saying this, I’m afraid, but I pursue the abnormal, like murderers and so on.

Ohtsuki: I see. You also had Jack the Ripper show up in your manga.

Araki: Yes, indeed, but…I want to write about more contemporary psycho horror elements. That type of abnormal psychology.

Ohtsuki: Speaking of which, there was this big incident last year that made me think “Wow, it’s happening~”… One of those modern shamans said they would drive the demons out of a person and beat them up until they killed them.

Araki: I heard about that. It really did happen, huh.

Ohtsuki: I love these kinds of things. I don’t believe in ghosts or the occult. I don’t believe in them anymore, but I can’t help but love them.

Araki: I generally try to write Jojo as not completely steeped in the occult, but somewhere on the borderline; close to the other world, but not completely. For example, I prefer writing about the uncertainty and fear you feel when you wonder if there’s someone behind that door.

Ohtsuki: Behind that door?

Araki: Exactly. Don’t you find it scary when a curtain behind a window moves just a little?

Ohtsuki: Ikariya Chousuke is behind it (laughs). If I were to think there’s someone behind it, I’d just fully open it and bam! Chou-san would be there and go “Wooh”. (everyone laughs)

Araki: Still, you need this sort of unpredictability when you are writing a story.

Ohtsuki: You know, I didn’t believe in aliens before, but at one point I read Minamiyama Hiroshi’s books and wham! it dawned upon me. I’ve been obsessed with UFOs ever since.

Araki: That photo with the pyramids on Mars took me by surprise.

Ohtsuki: Oh yes, that one. That’s a funny one.

Araki: Is it edited?

Ohtsuki: It’s edited or, how should I put it, it’s more like spirit photography or those rocks that resemble human faces. There is this self-styled science journalist named K who claims the Moon is actually a secret base for UFOs and traces letters on all kinds of photos with the Moon craters, saying how many UFOs are in which craters, or pointing out where certain hideouts are. You do tend to believe you see what you’re told to see, but those blurry pictures of rocks simply make you think they resemble faces. That was what I meant.

Araki: Rather scary.

Ohtsuki: There are people who turn completely paranoid, overthink things and simply get lost in their own world. Especially writers. I was a bit afraid you might be like that too.

Araki: I have betrayed your expectations (laughs).

Ohtsuki: No, no, this is actually a good thing. I was worried what to say if you said “Dio visited me again this morning”. There really are people like this, you know. For example, there is this anime adaptation, Genma Taisen, written by H. It’s amazing how that person seems to be going more and more off the rails.

Araki: An actual living person?

Ohtsuki: He wrote Wolf Guy, which I really love, but apparently he always felt like the protagonist actually existed somehow. So, one day someone calling themselves by the protagonist’s name showed up at his door. He looked nothing like Inugami, he was just a normal middle-aged guy. At first, H thought he was some random paranoid guy, but still talked to him because he was afraid something might happen…and in the meantime, he came to believe he was the real thing. The scariest part is that they are talking in the presence of a magazine editor (laughs)

Araki: So, up until now he has…err…been writing while telepathically communicating with that person.

Ohtsuki: Yes. I told that story to S, an acquaintance who researches UFOs. He replied that he had been collecting material about psychic abilities as H’s advisor, had met that Inugami person and had even gotten an autograph (laughs). He showed it to me and it did say “Inugami”. What would you do if one day Jojo came to your house?

Araki: The story you just told me feels so real.

Ohtsuki: It won’t be long before Jojo visits you.

Araki: I love Inugami too, so I feel like he actually exists.

Ohtsuki: You do end up feeling like that, huh. Also, what’s amazing is that…

We apologise, but the following content was too extreme, so it could not be reproduced.

Ohtsuki: Maybe I will also become a writer visited by the protagonist of the story he wrote a few years back.

Araki: I also have people asking me how come I know about hamon, because they were already practising it.

Ohtsuki: See? You will be visited by a Jojo in a few years’ time.

Araki: I will introduce them to you when the time comes.

Ohtsuki: Is Jojo going to get an anime?

Araki: There’s one out right now.

Ohtsuki: Is it airing already?

Araki: It’s on video. I like the scenario. I didn’t write it, but it feels like I actually did…

Ohtsuki: Then I’m going to watch it.

Araki: It’s interesting. It’s a fast paced story.

Ohtsuki: What do you think about the voices?

Araki: I don’t worry about them at all. It would be a bit weird if a man voiced a woman though.

Ohtsuki: That would be odd.

Araki: Or if Jojo had Lupin III’s or Sazae-san’s voice.

Ohtsuki: But that would be nice. Really nice. Imagine if Dio said “Useless useless useless” in Masuo’s voice.

Araki: Or Doraemon’s voice…

Ohtsuki: Ok, that kind of unexpected casting is just…

Araki: It’s fine, but it would end up as a cult work.

Ohtsuki: For example, I actually want to see Namihei from Sazae-san voicing Lupin III.

Araki: It would be nice if voice imitators did it too.

Ohtsuki: Oh, there’s someone who really sounds like that. Someone who imitates Hirokawa Taichirou as Lupin III’s voice. It is such a strange thing to encounter in daily life, above all else. What if you turned on the TV one day and Lupin III’s voice were completely different!

Araki: That would be quite something.

Ohtsuki: One billion people would faint in front of the TV if he had the same voice as Hoshi Ittetsu.

Araki: The phone lines would be on fire.

Ohtsuki: I want to see this for Sazae-san’s Ooyama Nobuyo too. I would actually love to write this kind of story one day.

Araki: I am sure you can do it.

Now, one final message for the readers…

Ohtsuki: I am releasing an album titled “UFOs to koibito” in April. It make me happy if you bought one copy… I am also very serious about writing a story, whether it takes me ten or twenty years. It might end up as a novel or a movie though.

Araki: I see. I know this sounds cliche, but let’s do our best. Disregarding the anime, Jojo also has a Famicom game and a novel. Nevertheless, I want to make the manga interesting enough so it won’t lose to either of them.

Thank you for today.

[Translated by Dijeh][3]


noveloken_00 この号はジョジョ特集号で、小説以外にも折込ポスターや、ジョースター家四代の歴史(年表)、空条承太郎大激闘MAP(第三部冒険地図)等が載っていました。その辺の紹介についてはまた別の機会に。

お相手は音石・・・ではなく大槻ケンヂ氏です。 (※時期的には音石明が登場する直前)

オーケン&飛呂彦の奇妙な世界 THE SHOCKING BIZARRE TALK【大槻ケンヂVS荒木飛呂彦】 仄かに広がる燭台の灯の中、二人の特異な才能を持つ者が出会った――。 一人は荒木飛呂彦、そしてもう一人は大槻ケンヂ。ショッキング・ビザール・トークが今始まる・・・。



大槻 実は僕は「ジョジョ」を読んで一番思った事はあれなんですよ。何かウオ~ッとやる気になるなという。俺もやらねば~。何かやらねば~みたいな。僕はミュージシャンというか、バンドをやっているんですけども、実は本も書いているんです。で、ある雑誌に書くんで、集中しなくちゃならんと思って、4日間位マンションにこもって執筆してたんですけど、もう~・・・!僕ね、バンドをやったり、映画に出たり、テレビに出たりとか色々やっているんですけど、バンドが一番楽。もう「物語」を作るというのは辛いですね。

荒木 でもね、その壁なんですよ。辛い、っていう壁を越えると楽しいんですよね。

大槻 それでその時にちょうど「ジョジョ」を読みまして、う~むと。

荒木 でもね、私もほんと、曲からとかいっぱいヒントを得たりしますよ。

大槻 僕思ったんですけど、ディオって言うのはロニー・ジェイムス・ディオで、ジョジョは『ゲットバック』に出てくるジョジョですよね。

荒木 そうです。いっぱいいますよ、もう。何かね、ロックとこういうホラー的なものっていうのは、子供の時からビビッと来まして。僕は70年代位から聞き始めたんですけど。昔はジャケットってその曲のアーティストを撮ってたんですよね。ところが、70年代に入ってから急に悪魔的なものをジャケットに押し出すんですよ。マーク・ボランとか、キング・クリムゾンとかね。タイトルも「地獄のハイウェイ」とか「悪魔の頭脳選択」とか、そういうのがあって、何でか知らないけど、本能的にバシバシッってきちゃって。音楽よりもジャケットで買ったと言う方がいいんじゃないかという。

大槻 僕もそうですね。ジャケットで買ってました。

荒木 ワルの魅力というか、悪魔の魅力みたいなね。そういうのが、僕、きましたね。

大槻 「ジョジョ」では、どっちに肩入れしてかいているっていうのはありますか? やっぱ悪の側?

荒木 いや、一応全員に思い入れして書くんですけど、悪の方が楽しい時もありますね。何か自分が変態みたいに思われると困るんですけども、異常性とかを追求したりするんですよ、殺人鬼とか。

大槻 ああ。前の方に切り裂きジャックも出ていますよね。

荒木 ええ、出てきましたけど・・・。もうちょっと現代サイコホラー的な、ああいう異常心理を書きたいんですよ。

大槻 そういえば、去年、これは僕はきたな~って言う凄い事件が、ありまして・・・。今時、祈祷師が、悪霊がついたとかいう人をお払いだとか言って、ポカポカ叩いて、殺しちゃった事件なんですよ。

荒木 知ってます。きてますよね。

大槻 こういうのが僕、好きなんですよね。幽霊とかオカルトとか、そういうものを僕、信じていないんですよ。もうほとんど信じていないんだけど好きでしょうがない。

荒木 一応、「ジョジョ」なんかではオカルトどっぷりではなく、境目みたいな所にいるように心がけてて、完璧にあっちの世界にはいかないようにしてるんですけどね。たとえば、あのドアの向こうに誰がいるのかなとか、そういう怖さを追求するような所ですよ。

大槻 あのドアの後ろですか?

荒木 そう。窓からカーテンがチラッと動いたりすると怖いじゃないですか、ああいう感じですね。

大槻 いかりや長介がいる。(笑) たとえば、僕がそこに何があるんだと思ってバーンと開けたら、長さんがいて「ウオ~」とか。(一同大笑) 荒木 でも、そういう意外性って、「物語」を作る上で必要ですよね。



大槻 僕は宇宙人とか信じていなかったんですが、ある時、南山宏先生の本を読んでガ~ン、ときましてね。それ以来、僕、UFOオタクなんですよ。

荒木 あの写真ビックリしたなあ。火星表面のピラミッドの写真。

大槻 ああ、あれね。でも、あれ、笑っちゃいますよ。

荒木 トリックなんですか?

大槻 トリックというか、心霊写真といっしょで、何かこうクニャクニャした岩がただ顔に見えるっていうのがあるじゃないですか。Kさんていう自称科学ジャーナリストがいるんですけど、その人が、実は月はUFOの秘密基地だったと言って、月の写真をいっぱい出して、クレーターとかの上から字をなぞって、ここにUFOが何機置いてあるとか、ここに秘密基地があるとか、絵にかくんです。そういわれりゃそう見えなくもないけど、岩の写真とか、遠くからのしかもよくわかんない写真で、ここに人の顔があるかなあと思えばそう思えちゃうじゃないですか。そういう感じですよ、あれって。

荒木 やばいですよね。

大槻 そういうパラノイア的なというか、集中しまくっちゃって、その世界に完全に入っちゃって、何かもう逸脱しちゃってると言うのかな、そういう人っているじゃないですか。特に作家の方って。だから、実は僕はお会いするまでは荒木さんもそういう方だったらどうしようかと、ちょっと怖かったんですけども。

荒木 ご期待に添えませんで。(笑)

大槻 いえいえ。いやあ、安心しました。何か、いきなり「けさもディオが来てね」とか言い出されたりしたらどうしようかと。でも、あるじゃないですか。例えば、前にアニメ化もされた『幻○○○』を書かれたHさん。あの方もどんどん、うお~っていっちゃう人で、すごいんですよ。

荒木 実際の人がですか。

大槻 Hさんは「ウ○○ガイ」って作品を書いてらっしゃって、僕も大好きなんですけど、その作品の主人公がどこかで実在するような気がずっとしてたんだそうですよ。で、何とある日、家にその主人公だと名乗る人間が来ちゃったんですって。とても犬○○とは思えない普通のおじさんだったらしいんですけど。それでHさんは、最初はこいつはただのパラノイアだろうと思って、でも怖いから話してたんですって・・・。でも、Hさんは話してるうちにこいつは本物だと思っちゃったんですね。それで恐るべき事に、ある雑誌で編集者立会いの下、対談してるんです。(笑)

荒木 じゃ、今まではその・・・テレパシーみたいなものをその人から受けて書いていたと。

大槻 そう。それで僕、その話をUFO研究家の知人に話したんですよ。そしたら、そのSさんていう方が、「いや、僕も実はHさんのブレーンとして超能力とかの資料集めをしていたんだよ」とか言い出しまして、「だから、僕もその犬○○さんに会いましたよ。見て下さい。サインをもらったんですよ」と。(笑)見せてもらったら確かに『犬○○』とサインに書いてあるんですよ。どうします? ある日荒木さんのお宅にジョジョが訪ねてきたら!

荒木 今の話、すごいリアリティがありますね。

大槻 荒木さん、それはあともうちょっとですよ。ジョジョが訪ねてくるまで。

荒木 でも、犬○○は僕も好きだから、実際にいるような感じはしますよね。

大槻 そういうふうになってきちゃうんでしょうね。あと、凄いのが・・・。


大槻 でも、僕も何年か「物語」を作って数年後に終わらせた時に主人公が訪ねてきたとか言う人になってるかも知れないですね。

荒木 でも、私の所にも、どうして波紋って知ってるんですかと言う人が来ますよ。私がやっているんだって。

大槻 ほ~ら。あと数年後、ジョジョが訪ねてきますよ。

荒木 その時は紹介しますよ。

大槻 「ジョジョ」はアニメ化というのは?

荒木 今やってます。

大槻 もう始まってるんですか?

荒木 ビデオです。けど、このシナリオの出来がいいんですよ。何か僕自身が書いた訳じゃないんだけど、自分が書いたような・・・。

大槻 あ、それは見てみよう。

荒木 面白いですよ。ガンガン来る話になってて。

大槻 声の印象とかはどうですか?

荒木 そういうのは全然気にしないです。男が女の声してたらちょっとあれですけど。

大槻 それはまずいですよね。

荒木 あと、ジョジョが「ルパン三世」の声してるとか、「サザエさん」の声してるとか。

大槻 でも、それ、いいなあ。すごくいいなあ。ディオがマスオさんのあの声で「無駄無駄無駄ーッ」とか。

荒木 「ドラえもん」の声とか・・・。

大槻 でも、そういう意外なキャスティングというのも・・・。

荒木 いいけど、それはカルト作品になっちゃうよ。

大槻 例えば「サザエさん」で波平の声が「ルパン三世」の声だったりする訳ですよ。それは見てみたいなあ。

荒木 あとものまねの人にやってもらうとかもいいですね。

大槻 あっ、すごい似てる人がいるんですよ。広川太一郎のまねをする人で。ほんと、例えば、ルパンの声が広川太一郎だったりしたら。それこそがまさに日常の中の異常ですよ。何よりも。例えば、ある日テレビをつけたら、ルパン三世の声が全然違う!

荒木 いいですねぇ。

大槻 星一徹の声だったりしたら気絶しますよ、一億人がテレビの前で。

荒木 電話が殺到するでしょうねぇ。

大槻 サザエさんの大山のぶ代も見たいな。僕もいつかそういう「物語」を書きたいなあと思っているんですけどね。

荒木 書けると思いますよ。


大槻 4月に「UFOと恋人」というアルバムが出るんですよ。まあひとつよければ買っていただけたら・・・。そして僕は真剣に、あと十年二十年かかってもいいから「物語」を作りたいと。でもやっぱり小説か映画とかいう手段になるんだろうなあ。

荒木 そうですね。月並みですけど、頑張りますかな。「ジョジョ」もアニメの他にもファミコンや小説になってますけど、そのどれにも本家のマンガが負けないように書いていくつもりです。 ―本日はどうもありがとうございました。 (渋谷『タントラ』にて)

荒木先生からのビザールトーク後記!! 「マンガ家にしては普通の人すネ」とそーいーあんただってロッカーのくせにまじめな人のくせに 対談は一種の闘いだなと思った


Japanese VHS 1 (OVA).jpg
Mídia Caseira
Publicado em 19 de Novembro de 1993

Hirohiko Araki talks about the anime adaptation of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

Araki: Despite the fact that I am the author, JOJO is a manga that I have trouble describing. In view of its success, I guess it must be a good series.

We asked the author of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Hirohiko Araki today, his impressions of the animated adaptation of his work. Discover what he revealed to us.

What did you think of the adaptation project at the beginning?

Araki: In the OVA, Jotaro's adventures in Part 3 do not take place in a continuous thread, but rather, in small pieces. It comes across as highlights of the things people liked the most. That seemed fine to me. I wanted something that would satisfy buyers, something that would please fans, something really addictive and exciting. I asked them in particular to make a 'beautiful anime'.

Your impressions of the 1st episode (episode 8)?

Araki: Well...Although I am the author of the series, I was really ensnared by it. Not necessarily because it was good or bad but just at the level of history and suspense it had. For example, when Polnareff flees holding Kakyoin I said to myself: "faster! faster!" These are the impressions I felt.

The music is really good. It's called the soundtrack, I think. I realized that it really was different from any other anime so far.

What did you think about the voice acting?

Araki: The first time I listened to them, I thought: "Ah, okay, so that's how they sound." But that isn't an unpleasant impression. I think this anime admirably adapts my work.

Here are some comments from the director, Mr. Kitakubo.

Kitakubo: I've already discussed this project once before with Mr. Araki. As it is a manga that exudes intense energy, I expected an equally energetic author. When I met him, I found him very open. I wouldn't say he is 'sweet', but my impression of him was that he was a little effeminate. His kind of words can be vexing. How can I put this..? He's like a girl with a very dark character. He's not really macho, and I think his eyes are a bit feminine too. In talking with him, I learned that he watched a lot of movies and read novels. He always seems to be looking for ideas to exploit in his manga. One feels in him a great desire to enrich his work. It is really very interesting. Working with him during this work really inspired me. It's very hard but I want to do my best to do surpass the original manga.

Araki: Episodes 1 and 2 are really well done. I look forward to the rest of the series. I hope that the feeling of presence in the other episodes will be as well done.

As you can see, Mr. Araki seems very happy with the anime. Mr. Araki, thank you very much. The production of episodes continues! We wait for them impatiently!

To Be Continued[4]

[Translated by Notelu]

Livro de Arte
Publicado em 10 de Dezembro de 1993

Part 4's Theme:
Why did I decide to set Part 4's story in 1999, the near future? (Note: JoJo 6251 was released in 1993.) Well, it's suppose to continue after Part 3, and I figured "1999" could add some type of "turn of the century" feel to it. I was also originally thinking of depicting a world after death, but didn't think anybody could relate to it.
One of the themes of Part 4 is "describing the city, creates the city." In part 3, I came up with the idea of using a neighborhood middle aged woman selling cigarettes who attacks Jotaro and his friends. The problem was that Part 3 was a worldwide trip, so while Jotaro had to move on from the suburban setting, I couldn't. I thought, if the adventure were to happen in just one city, I could take advantage of the concept of several people you'd meet around town suddenly threatening you and lurking about. I thought, maybe I could set a hospital as a battle stage, or involve someone like a mayor in the story. I figured this would enable me to take anything people are familiar with in everyday life and do something creative with it.

As you already know, most of my character's names are named after foreign musicians. Why do I do this? Well, it makes it easy for me to name characters and easy for readers to remember them. Yep, that's it (laugh), I don't bother coming up with original names. What's worse is that the names I give can sometimes cause confusion; "Kakyoin" for example, is the name of a place that exists in Sendai, my hometown. Part 4's another story though, as I had to come up with so many Japanese names. That was tough! From the very beginning, I had already decided on the name Josuke (Also read as JoJo), but deciding the family name gave me a hard time. (東方 Jojo of the east side) By the way, for Kujo, I looked into the dictionary and found ku meant sky and figured that sounded nice. For Okuyasu Nijimura, I used Niji which meant rainbow and chose "Nijimura" specifically cause it had a nicer ring to it than Nijioka or Nijiki. (Note: mura 村 means village, oku 億 means one hundred million. His big bro, Keicho's cho 兆 means trillion) I combine my favorite kanjis with sound taken into consideration, whether it it's easier to say or not. Though I'm having trouble thinking of any other JoJo puns, so I were to start Part 5, I'd probably have a hard time. (The result ended up having every character named after Italian food.)

Jotaro's School Outfit:
I decided Jotaro must be in a school uniform due to influence from "Babel II," a famous manga of a boy in a gakuran having an adventure in a desert. I've always thought how cool it was to have an adventure in a school uniform. This idea boggled me. It permeated a sense of "a man's spirit of romantic adventure," and "beauty" that could only be found from a boy having an adventure in a school uniform in a desert.

Wanting a sequel to previous works.:
People sometimes ask, "Why don't you draw sequels to Baoh or BT? Well, they're already done in my mind. Similarly, I always get letters asking me to revive Kakyoin, or bring back Polnareff for Part 5. I don't think I will though, since characters with similar natures are already present in Part 4. (Note: He did end up bringing back Polnareff, though in another interview he mentions adding him in was a last minute choice.) Even though I say this, you'll likely ask, "then why did Jotaro and Joseph show up in Part 4, weren't they done too?" Well, they have the advantage of being related to Josuke. Bloodline is important. Really, I don't have anything lingering whatsoever for Part 1-3, my previous works. Although, I'm more of a "forgetting" than "moving-on" type of person (laugh). My works resemble a diary in that I don't put too much thought into what I had previously written, but more so into drawing what I'm feeling NOW. Now is what matters most.

You encounter ゴゴゴ alot in my works. This sound effect is kinda the "groove, "tempo", or "rhythm" I feel when drawing. The atmosphere of the scene is what decides when I put this sfx. Like when I'm drawing a scene where a "DOOON" (ドーン!) appears, here comes ゴゴゴ to add a more ominous, something-is-happening touch! For Dio's MUDAMUDAMUDA, I add it to give feeling to his shouting. My way of adding SFX's and choosing lines is similar to making music in a way.

How Araki works on Weekly JoJo:
First, I draw the "name" on report paper, which takes about 12 hours. (Name is Japanese, it refers to the draft storyboard.) Then I have a meeting with my editor, and after I begin drawing more elaborate sketches and eventually inking. I never start on the next page until I completely finish the one I'm working on; I work strictly on a one-page-basis. This system allows for my assistants to work on each page more efficiently. I finish the names and begin dividing them into frames on Sunday. Work begins on Monday, where we work from 11 in the morning to midnight, though we do take a siesta for lunch from 3 to 4. On Tuesday and Wednesday we work as we do on Monday, and I make sure it's all finished by 6pm on Wednesday. For the rest of the time on Wednesday, I deal with determining the plot for the next chapter. On Friday and Saturday, I sit back and relax, draw illustrations, go somewhere to interview people, look for ideas or info for my works. I'm not really good at research though (laugh), or talking to people I first meet. I remember my stomach being filled with butterflies when I tried talking to the people who take care of the animals at the zoo. Either way, I'm quite strict when it comes to my schedule, and I deal with my work quite squarely. Otherwise, if we get too lazy, we never actually get any work done. During daytime, I have to give instructions to my assistants, which often stops our work, so ironically the time when I get the most work done is when my assistants go home.

At times I'm on a roll when it comes to coming up with ideas, and other times, it's hard for me to come up with anything. So whenever I am on a roll, when the ideas start cascading, I take advantage of that moment to try to write down everything for later use. I've never experienced a "slump" (the time a mangaka cannot draw anything, and gets nowhere), but there are times where I don't FEEL like doing anything. Everyone feels like that at some point, right? I always have so much work that if you ask me it it's tough, I'd say it very much is.

If you ask me who my favorite is, It'd definitely be Josuke. Definitely Josuke...and Jotaro, and Dio, N'Doul, D'Arby. I love characters that have their own aesthetics. Characters I hate are ones I really tried to make look disgusting, unpleasent e.g Vanilla Ice. I gradually felt sick while drawing them.

Which type of character is easier for me to draw, good guys or bad guys? I can't say which is easier, because good/bad are like heads and tails, they're two sides of a coin and there is a really fine line between the two. Good characters tend to be bound by rules, but it's fun to work with them because at a certain times they begin to have a weird eccentricity. Depicting good characters is fun, but I guess depicting bad ones can be more fun since I can make them do anything (illegal) or destroy everything.

My Childhood:
I began drawing by imitating Shirato Sanpei's "Watari" or Chiba Tetsuya's "Harisu no Kaze" when I was 5 or 6. It seems so long ago, back when you could watch "Ultraman" on TV. I also made original stories, like muscle men fighting villains. I loved period plays (Stories that take place in Feudal Japan). There were so many manga titles I loved back then...sports comics, ghost related, I even bought the very first issue of Jump! Among all those mangakas, the one who moved me most is Yokoyama Mitsuteru (Babiru the second). I read his comics until they were worn out.

I was quite a normal child, but I was much more cool-headed than others. I was like that kid calmly looking at others raising hell. My hobbies were manga or movies. I didn't show any interest toward plastic models or radio-controlled model cars. I was such a pushover for "Spaghetti Western movies" and "Clint Eastwood." My dad loved them too.

I commented "My parents don't understand my manga" on the cover of a comic before. They still don't understand, which is puzzling to me because I draw manga with respect to Eastwood, whom my Dad loves. Why the heck can't they get to like my work? What is at the very core of my works is same as Eastwood's. Maybe the JoJo anime will help them get interested.

Other than Eastwood's, I loved the Godzilla series, or panic-filled movies. I couldn't see movies so often with the small amount of allowance I had, though.

Sports? I practiced Kendo. Group sports such as basketball or soccer were not my thing. I joined the baseball team once, but when I failed to catch, pitch or hit, everyone stared at me. I didn't like that part of group sports. Like it's ok for me to run alone, but I could not do relay races; I didn't want the responsibility. I couldn't work as a team. (laugh) What I did I love was magic tricks and playing cards, I even bought a How-to book and practiced them.

I've always loved Rock 'N Roll. From the late 1960's I began to listen to "Chicago," and "Led Zeppelin." In the 80's, "Prince," which is actually what I was listening to when I was drawing the cover for JoJo 6251. Foreign music with an ancient time's atmosphere and a baroque feel stir up my imagination. I couldn't afford expensive records back then so I listened to music from the radio. I recorded songs with a gigantic cassette deck my parents bought for my studies in English. I remember trying to stay perfectly still so I'd be quiet while recording (laugh). I didn't listen to Japanese songs at all at the time, and I still don't.

I had really wanted to become a mangaka since I was very little, but I tried to keep it a secret. Once I was asked, "What do you want to be in the future?" and I replied, "mangaka." The one who asked said "Good luck," though I could read from their eyes that they were really saying, "You can't become a mangaka!" So I ended up not telling anybody, not even my parents. I didn't even work on any kind of "doujinshi" either.

At some point, I began to think that I should immerse myself into the world of my stories and illustrations, so I started studying at a designer school. At the time, I had drawn two western manga, which I entered for a manga competition sponsored by Shonen Jump. I used to like Shonen Magazine too, but from the 1980's they started to focus on love-comedy. I hated that type of thing, so I didn't enter any contests Shonen Magazine sponsored. Despite entering the competitions with my "masterpieces" I never did receive any calls. I wondered why, so I went to the Shueisha HQ in Tokyo to ask their opinions on it directly. The one editor I showed it to, before even reading it, pointed out that I forgot to erase the black lines. He boggled my mind (laugh), but I learned a lesson that day. Back home, I began improving on my story, after 4 months I finished 30 pages worth. This work was called Poker Under Arms and it is what I made my debut with.

I am interested in fashion. I take Italian fashion into account when deciding what my characters wear. Versace and Moschino's clothes are so loud and gorgeous, they make my illustrations beautiful. However, they do have their weaknesses. I get bored with them if I draw them for too long (laugh). Similar to how certain clothes go out of fashion througout the years. I used to check out Japanese fashion books, but they are something different; they seem out of date.

My doubt over supernatural powers helped me come up with Stands. I doubt such powers like, "Just think hard enough and things will begin to move." I don't see anything? How can you say your "willpower" moved things? I wanted something visible that could explain these powers. For example, if a person is in the dark and something moves, you can't really see what's happening. But, if something visible pops out from the person and actually touches things and moves them, then you'd say, "Oh, I see!" Stands are proof of those superpowers, basically my way of explaining how these invisible powers work. Well, they're kind of like "pseudo" proof, but they still work as an explanation (laugh).

I called it a "stand" after "light stands," the type that sit beside your bed in a "looming" manner when you read. With stands, I thought I could describe loads of things. "What a good idea", I thought. In part 3, I connected stands with tarot cards cause I wanted each stand to be unique. I thought 22 would be enough, but I ended up running short (lol). The stand's designs were inspired by Yokai's and eerie folkcrafts. I first decided the abiity, and then the appearance with which readers can associate with the ability. What I love about stands is that I can express psychological warfare. The Stand's physical powers are not what matters most. e.g. A stand with no physical power but with the the ability to make enemies tell lies can still be very formidable (Which ended up being the basis for Talking Head.)

"Cool Shock BT." My First serialization. I worked on it in Sendai, my hometown. It was around the time the delivery service was first established, so I would send copies of rough sketches through that and talk with my editors by phone, just like Kishibe Rohan (laugh). My editor back then was so severe. After I had sent all of my work, he'd end up calling me to Shueisha in Tokyo anyways. I had to use an ashtray as a palette to practice and had to sleep on the train the next morning. That trained me as a mangaka; my editor is a man I respect as a severe teacher and also a god. He was the one that decided that Dio should be in Egypt since he loved Egypt and was very knowledgeable of it. (He was the one who tried hard to get BT serialized in Jump, when other editors were against it.)

"Baoh." I was thinking about Baoh when I drew BT during it's Jump serialization. By "the visitor," I meant "Strike Back." Back then, everyone was talking about Biotech, so I named Baoh after Biotech. I also wanted to pursue physical power.

"Gorgeous Irene." I came up with Irene's plot while pursuing physical power. I named her "Irene", which sounded cute. I started to draw Irene to see If I could actually draw girls. The result: I realized I couldn't draw girls. That's why you generally don't see that many girls in JoJo. Recently though, I've been incorporating more and more girls, and now I think I can draw them.

Starting JoJo:

I earned alot of money from drawing Baoh, which allowed me to go abroad for the first time in my life. I ended up going to England for 10 days, where I was at a loss, since I couldn't order food at restaurants due to my inability to speak English. I had a rather hard time there, but the experience inspired me to draw JoJo. By the way, two years after the trip I tried to write off the expense. The tax office refused me, so I had to pay surcharge; I've had a grudge against them ever since.

[Translated by ???]

Japanese VHS 3 (OVA).jpg
Tradução incompleta
Mídia Caseira
Publicado em 21 de Julho de 1993

K: Part 4's going to be quite long, isn't it?

A: No, well, I haven't organized it or anything.

K: How about little hints? Like when Josuke met his past self?

A: Oh, that's not related.

K: It's not related!?

A: That's just Josuke's memory.
[Translated by MetallicKaiser (JoJo's Bizarre Encyclopedia)]


荒 木「いや、全然構成とかしていないんですけど」


荒 木「ああ、あれは関係ないです」


荒 木「あれはただの仗助の思い出ですよ」[5]

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